r/F1Technical • u/alfred_27 • Feb 11 '22
Picture/Video Going from just the picture how would these designs effect the car?
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u/cum_hoc Rory Byrne Feb 11 '22
I'm curious about AM's and McLaren's packaging. They have the same engine and yet they went in different routes.
McLaren seems to have designed its own rear suspension. I would have guessed they would use Mercedes'.
Apparently James Key is not fond of bulges in cars. Not fond of a slim coke bottle either.
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u/986cv Feb 12 '22
The coke bottle is very slim, they just raised the outlets high (like Red Bull did last year) to make space for the coke bottle underneath, viewed from above the raised outlets give the illusion the coke bottle isn't slim when it actually is
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u/trollymctrollstein Feb 11 '22
AM went super wide on the side pods and Mclaren also stayed very boxy in the back. I don’t think either team wanted to have an aggressive taper and then need to tightly wrap the body over the plenum bulge as AM and Mercedes did last year. Is it possible that the bulkiness of the mercedes engine package could compromise this generation of cars if this aero concept turns out to be inferior?
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u/Minimanzz Feb 12 '22
Pretty sure it’s because Aston Martin uses a Mercedes gearbox & McLaren makes/uses their own
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u/jpaganrovira Feb 11 '22
Don’t let them body-shame you, AMR22. You are beautiful just the way you are, ya gorgeous machine!
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u/Remy-today Feb 11 '22
Scale is off, compare the tires, the AMR is scaled bigger in this picture than it is.
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u/jpaganrovira Feb 11 '22
I feel the opposite might be the case, no?
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u/Remy-today Feb 11 '22
Compare the left front of the McLaren and the right front of the Aston Martin and you will see that the Aston Martin is scaled bigger. Tires are of equal size, that’s how you can compare it.
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u/Freedom_Soul Feb 11 '22
Definitely this. The McLaren is a bit longer than the amr22 and in this picture the amr is much larger lol by comparison the Haas is even smaller than the mclaren
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u/TurdFurgeson18 Feb 12 '22
F1 Instagram account posted a side-by-side that shows that the axle’s are actually at different places on the car, so yes and no.
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Feb 12 '22
the tires dont magically change size when the axles move. compare the size of the front tires to each other and tell me the aston isnt zoomed in more
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u/TurdFurgeson18 Feb 12 '22
the axle position, car length and wing volume/positions are different on each car. Which means that an even slightly different render size would mean knock-on visual comparison differences when comparing them directly. Thats why i say “yes and no” because while the scaling is slightly off, when you factor in all those pieces, you conclude that it is a very minor scaling difference at best
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u/happy_ever_after_21 Feb 12 '22
It doesn’t matter where the tires are. The tires are homologated. If they look X size on 1 car and then Y size on 2 car, then that means the scale is different, which in this case they are
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u/neliz Feb 11 '22
Thr AMR22 looks more like a racing car than the MCL36, for some reason thr McLaren looks off.
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u/jpaganrovira Feb 11 '22
Yea I feel I would feel better about them saying “livery reveal” as opposed to Car Reveal. I know all the caveats and understand why teams don’t show the actual cars, but that’s exactly why that beautiful green pancake stands out, it telegraphs “ground effect”, IMHO, and that is just delicious. AM went up in my book just for that.
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u/Endisbefore Feb 11 '22
Haas/McLaren hid "key components" and used "earlier models" so they could end up looking closer to what Aston Came up with but fuck they nearly look like different series.
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u/Dan23DJR Feb 11 '22
In all honestly I really really really hope they remain looking like completely different series when the season actually starts. In recent years the cars have started to look so similar, would be refreshing to see lots of different shapes/visibly different designs on the track this year
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u/roygiv Feb 12 '22
I think this will be the case. With how different they are here, it seems like it would take a huge amount of development to end up in a place where they all look as similar as last year’s cars
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Feb 11 '22
Yeah, I hope so, main thing that I see AM has going for it is the incredibly thin rear suspension bodywork, and it also has a massive undercut under the sidepods, might help to manage airflow.
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u/Stendecca Feb 11 '22
The HAAS sidepods are much wider than the AM at the widest point. The AM does have a massive undercut as well.
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u/Reasons_Unknown96 Feb 12 '22
Just remember this isn’t the actual Haas Car. They used the stock F1 Body that they revealed last year. So their actual car will look more like McLaren and Aston.
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u/Doyle524 Feb 12 '22
Lol no they didn’t. The Haas is absolutely not an FIA showcar, unlike the Red Bull.
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u/kroko-deal Feb 11 '22
I saw this headline that Ferrari is worried that "the new regulations will make cars lose their image" when as of today of the 3 different cars that have been revealed look significantly different/unique.
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u/Sisyphean_dream Feb 11 '22
Give it time. As usual, one solution will prove optimal and designs will converge.
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Feb 11 '22
Even so - one of the great aspects of F1 is that there is never only one solution.
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u/Parachute-Man Feb 11 '22
Just last year the two top teams followed very opposite design philosophies with the high rake vs low rake
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Feb 12 '22
What we saw last year was Mercedes struggling to jack up the rake of their car as much as possible, and only really getting the overall setup working toward the end of the season. I think 2019, back when the Racing Point had their pre-clone high rake concept and more cars were running fatter noses, was the most divergent we've seen the grid
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u/OrdinaryLatvian Feb 14 '22
I think 2019, [...], was the most divergent we've seen the grid.
It's a 70 year old sport. The 2019 grid might as well have been a spec series compared to what was going on in the 70s, after they opened Pandora's box in in '68 and '69 with those stupid wings, before the dust kind of settled in the late 80s.
I mean, this thing raced in the same season as this.
You've got all these experimental abominations, like whatever the hell this is. Can't fault them for not trying enough, lol.
Pedantic jackassery aside, I love the look of these new cars. Here's hoping the regulations work out and they can follow each other better.
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u/986cv Feb 11 '22
Ferrari said that would be the effect in the medium/long term not immediately
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u/TurdFurgeson18 Feb 12 '22
This^
People are gonna see what everyone else is doing and test it.
The Gills on the AM will be either on every car or on no cars by May.
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u/SovietAgent Feb 11 '22
Yeah remember when these regulations were first announced people thought F1 was becoming a spec series. Gotta give it to Ross Brawn really.
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u/ihavenoidea81 Feb 11 '22
I’m so excited to see which team will turn out to be Brawn GP v 2.0. As a Ferrari fan I’m hopeful it will be them but it would be cool if it was someone other than the usual suspects
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Feb 11 '22
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u/Bolter_NL Feb 11 '22
This, from the presentations the AM looks refined and quite complete; but OK as they anyways did a shake down. McLaren looks almost basic and I haven't seen any pictures of the back. Also, the way the body work is cut it seems they are hiding a lot of what is going on there.
If they are good they will have to live with this ugly livery though :/
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u/The69BodyProblem Feb 12 '22
The McLaren livery is almost really good, but I think both the blue and the black was a mistake. I think their indycar liverys are better. Either blue or black
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u/eidetic Feb 12 '22
Yeah, the blue doesn't work for me. Blue with orange highlights/trim can work, but I don't think orange with blue highlights/trim works very well.
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u/neliz Feb 11 '22
For some reason thr McLaren looks very bulky at the rear, almost looking like the A520.
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u/fuskarn_35 Feb 11 '22
you mean A521
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u/Doyle524 Feb 12 '22
Most likely exhaust packaging - seems like the Ferrari engine runs cooler and allows tighter overall packaging than the Mercedes engine.
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u/TurdFurgeson18 Feb 12 '22
AM is a Merc engine too but has an even tighter package than Haas….
Rear end that is
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u/k2_jackal Feb 11 '22 edited Feb 11 '22
With the main bulk of the downforce coming from under the car looks like Haas and McLaren have tried to clean up the air passing over the exterior bodywork to the rear wing to extract the most from it where AMR has tried to reduce the internal drag from the air passing through the heat exchangers and feed that air towards the rear wing
who knows early on other than the designer.. Side pod exterior shape and engine covers are some of the easier/cheaper pieces to manipulate and change that don't cost an arm and a leg to redesign.. wouldn't shock me to see teams show up with a couple different versions in testing
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u/Sisyphean_dream Feb 11 '22
Side pods cost a fortune to redesign as the internal packaging must be redone and there are a multitude of knock-on effects related to the change in concept.
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u/ThomasMoane Feb 11 '22
I think K2Jackal means they (Haas and McLaren) could be using a different structure or shape for this show model. But I'd have to agree with you on the cost od changing a side pod design during testing. That is not easy to pull off without a ton of extra money, manufacturing time,..., wind tunnel testing. Which are all very limited this year.
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u/k2_jackal Feb 11 '22
yes and I'll point out I said "cheaper"... not cheap.. lol
Changing the side pods shape or engine cover is cheaper than an all new underfloor which would require extensive testing and probably affect the shape of the pods since they play an active role in feeding the bottom of the car. the chassis or front end would be highly expensive besides the normal testing it would have to go through new crash testing etc etc etc... same with the rear wing, you start tryin to relocate it or change it's design you end up with a myriad of other problems with how it reacts to the air exiting under the car etc etc etc and still may end up with new side pods to work with the new location
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u/FleshlightModel Feb 11 '22
Haas looks like a cock and balls and will probably be inversely as fast.
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Feb 12 '22
If I was McLaren, revealing my car AFTER one of the other Merc customer teams…I’d totally make my show car WAY skinnier than physically possible just to freak them out.
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u/Rowlandum Feb 11 '22
I wish they were on the same scale so we could see actual differences in size
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u/According-2-Me Feb 11 '22
From the front view, it looks like there is almost no undercut under the side-pod intake
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u/CPLCraft Feb 12 '22
Kyle.Engineers is analyzing the aerodynamics of the f1 car launches. And for context he worked for mercedes f1 as an aerodynamicist.
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u/Kolec507 Mercedes Feb 11 '22
Wow! It really shocks me how different from each other this year's cars are. I know they are just early versions but still
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u/viggy96 Feb 12 '22
These pictures are kinda deceiving, since the AM has a huge undercut in the sidepods for airflow, and the McLaren also has an undercut as well under that straight bit at the rear of the body.
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u/dani2001896 Feb 11 '22
I couldn't see the car as well as i wanted from the back but it looks like the way Aston Martin and Mclaren mounted the Mercedes engine on their car is totaly diffrent most likely because Mclaren use their "home made" gearbox.
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u/ThexHoganxHero Feb 12 '22
Between the massive difference between the mclaren and am with the same pu, and Norris and ricciardo seeming less than excited for this car, I have a bad feeling as a mclaren fan for at least the start of this season.
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u/AbyssinianHornbill Feb 11 '22
I feel like an idiot but can someone please point out like three main areas I should look for differences between the cars? I noticed that the suspensions all look different but I struggle to see other differences! (Feels like a spot the differences comic where I don't see them)
Thank you to any kind strangers who can tell me what I should be looking at/looking for.
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u/kar_1505 Feb 11 '22
Well one thing everyone's mentioning AMR22 is considerably more thicker at the sides than the Mclaren as Mclaren have designed their own rear suspension and gearbox for flexibility while Aston Martin have borrowed it from Mercedes
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Feb 11 '22
side pod/mid floor. rear wing/diffuser/ interior wheel aera. wi gets on the front of the sidepod (mostly uderpod but hass seems to have a 4th tucked behind the inner most) and the front wing as mclaren seems to have gone with a smaller one. hope that helps you
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u/AbyssinianHornbill Feb 11 '22
Also, not clear why anyone would down vote you on this - seems like a jerk move. Thanks again!
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Feb 12 '22
no problem,it was just a reddit moment lol.i would recommend checking out Kyle engineer on YouTube, he's a great source
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Feb 11 '22 edited Feb 11 '22
everyone talking about sidepods, which I will note that the amr 22 will break and wind that sticks with those outlets. Hass is likely showing a low cooling setup, possibly to hide some aero tricks, as there isn't much venting. mclaren seems to have gone with a hybrid of the hass and aston side boards, from my brief look there's a decent filled on the edge of the side pod. I think the more interesting discussion is in the wings, with the clean hass one, the aston with multiple winglets that are larger than the mclaren, which only has to. however the hass is just a render so there's probably some being hidden edit, I looked at the mclaren top view more, and the back seems to be being obscured with a wide body cut, as I haven't seen a full back photo,so I look forward to the aero tricks they do. on my phone, zooming on the rear seems to show two winglets one after another next to the rear wheels. also the mclaren dosent use as much of the front wing aera as others do, which I find fascinating, as with the lack of barge boards it seems like the teams are having to struggle to get all of the front aero they feel they need. mabye there's some rear end tricks that help with this, but I don't know
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Feb 12 '22
[deleted]
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u/Doyle524 Feb 12 '22
Lol xd Haas bad
They’ve been developing this car at the expense of everything else since 2019. It’s naïve to think that they’ll be back of the grid again.
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u/Pressbtofail Feb 11 '22
I feel like the AMR22 is going to be absolute dogshit in traffic.
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u/Voice_Calm Adrian Newey Feb 11 '22
Without outwash effect of the sidepods it'll be interesting to see how this will affect the floor's performance.
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Feb 11 '22
the AMR 22 seems to be designed to feed along the side pods, while the hass seems to try and push it out. 9 haven't really seen any analysis on the mclaren, and don't wanna attempt it myself though it seems similar to the hass, which may be able to feed the aston if it properly feeds into the sidepods
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u/twoturtlesinatank Feb 12 '22
maybe stupid question, but why do the front wings slope backwards? guessing something about air going along the length if the wing?
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u/TheDentateGyrus Feb 11 '22
I'm not seeing it, what is so different between the McLaren and Haas concepts? Both look like teardrops to me.
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u/DroopyPenguin95 McLaren Feb 12 '22
Could just be the livery, but the McLaren looks more streamlined to me. The Haas looks wider around the side pods and the McLaren's main body looks straighter
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u/geertp Feb 12 '22
The Aston Martin seems very bulky in the back. And what's up with the cheese grater?
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u/KemanFr Feb 12 '22
It's a Mercedes's engine, maybe it need more cool air than the others cars. I remember that Mercedes was struggling when they're in traffic, and their engine was overheating (the gearbox too).
The AMR22 have the engine, the gearbox and the rear suspensions of Mercedes, so maybe that's why they need to design it this way.
But maybe I'm wrong...
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u/McCarryLadd Feb 11 '22
For me it seems that Haas and McLaren will just have more aero with their design because of the coke bottle. But then again, I have no idea what I’m talking about.
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u/NomSang Feb 11 '22
Where Haas and McLaren went with a coke bottle, Aston Martin went with a shampoo bottle.
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u/windmillguy123 Feb 11 '22
Why are there no comparisons to the Red Bull that was launched?
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u/ThexHoganxHero Feb 12 '22
Just a livery launch on the show car design we’ve had for a bit.
I’d guess it’ll be closer to the mclaren/haas because something as different as the AM22 would be too different looking to even launch the livery on, especially because their livery has a lot more going on than some others.
Edit: I just looked at the Red Bull and I take it back. I don’t think it has anything too shape specific on the Red Bull, like the mclarens lines, that couldn’t be slapped on the AM without really changing anything. Maybe shrink the back logo but that’s it
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u/syxxness Feb 12 '22
Was that confirmed a show car or is that what everyone is speculating? (Not that it’s a bad thing)
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the FIA show model ended up being closest to the best design.
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u/ThexHoganxHero Feb 12 '22
I mean maybe they truly came up with something indistinguishable from the model. I’m sure it’s possible. The haas is pretty close and the mclaren isn’t miles away at least in comparison to Aston Martin
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u/runn5r Feb 11 '22
I am loving the variance, the McLaren packaging looks super impressive and the Aston almost dual floor concept is very interesteing.
Can’t wait to see the actual RB, the merc and the ferrari
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u/somelamephotoguy Feb 12 '22
I'm hoping we see more different shapes. The tunnels under the sidepods on the Aston are interesting.
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u/Aircraft_Engineer Feb 12 '22
Surprised with AM considering the Area Rule,it is so wide for quite a length!
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u/Paul24312 Feb 11 '22
is it me, or do these cars look absolutely stunning. AM did the run through test at Silverstone and i thought the car look amazing