r/F1Technical • u/DANKWINGS • Dec 09 '21
Circuit Do the F1 grid lights actually make that audible "BEEP" noise?
Title really. Was always curious.
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u/23TBob23 Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
At one time, F1 enginers figured out at what frequency FIA sends the signal to the lights in order to initiate the official start. After discovering this, engineers send the drivers a "start" signal via radio. Therefore, F1 starts where timed quite perfectly, as soon FIA finds out what signal the engineers are looking for and providing the "beep" to the driver, they just added a "fake" signal, seconds before the real start. Outcome:
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u/Changelinq Dec 09 '21
The story I remember is that it was the false start detection loops being switched off when the lights went out and the cars reacting to that. The FIA suspected this but wasn't sure , or knew and wanted teams to stop it asap
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u/lorryguy Dec 09 '21
What was the end result of that? Any penalties?
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u/23TBob23 Dec 09 '21
As far as I know (and the race highlights show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xzW0xJ_Dls) no penalties for the jump start.
So FIA was just fooling the engineers and changed the start procedure after his ;)36
u/lorryguy Dec 09 '21
Wow, what a riveting race that turned out to be!! I ended up watching all of the highlights, thanks!
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u/FirstTurnGoon Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
This seems to be largely an urban myth. I’ve heard like 8 versions of why they jumped the start. Was an official account from the FIA ever actually given? Others suggest the lights just had an error and didn’t go out like they were supposed to and people made up wild theories.
I mean it’s 1999 and there are lights on a pole. Logistically it would make sense for that to just be hardwired to the race director’s desk
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u/faz712 Dec 09 '21
they implemented the random delay between 5 lights on and lights out because teams would automate it once the first light lit up (i.e. they 'caught' them doing it there)
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u/therealdilbert Dec 09 '21
afaiu it wasn't the ligths they detected, they detected the sensor to detect jump starts that is in each grid box being turned on
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u/Jsm1337 Dec 10 '21
The story I have heard (maybe the same one, maybe a different one) was that a team (Renault in one of its guises?) figured out a way to detect when the jump start detection "loop" was activated or deactivated, leading to a perfect start.
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u/thaway314156 Dec 10 '21
Watching that video, I'm not buying that they're trying to fool some teams/drivers, that would be risking 20 lives (or how many were there on the grid in 1999?) for a "gotcha"... Plus all the expensive hardware, if the teams found out that they were doing such a test risking lives, FIA would be sued to oblivion.
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u/erelim Dec 10 '21
Lol what the hell are u talking abt the drivers are good enough to stop and will only end up accelerating 1.5m into the back if they don't
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u/tuss11agee Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
Not entirely true as far as I know.
I seem to remember that the start was aborted because if you look very far towards the back of the grid, a marshal waved yellow before the lights going out. I believe a car had stalled, so the marshal properly waved the yellow. That created an aborted start situation after the light sequence was initiated.
This is off of memory… the YouTube video isn’t of very good quality and you can’t see what I’m saying.
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u/iozuu James Allison Dec 09 '21
y FIA sends the signal to the lights in order to start the official start. After discovering this, engineers send the driver
lol hhahah. Is that true?. And FIA didn't have access to internal radios, to know what information was given to the drivers during the form lap /start. If not, how did FIA notice engineers had figured out the signal?
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u/rokatoro Dec 09 '21
No, at the time the light signal was sent by radio to start the countdown and the lights went off at a set time. The teams figured this out, intercepted the signal and sent the drivers a beep tone 100ms before the light went out. When the FIA figured this out they added a random time to the final lights out but neglected to tell the teams.
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u/iozuu James Allison Dec 10 '21
Yup. But I mean, how did the FIA figure it out?
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u/bunt_cucket Colin Chapman Dec 10 '21 edited Mar 12 '24
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u/Centurion4007 Dec 11 '21
Probably because several drivers were reacting about 100ms faster than is humanly possible. They then worked out how they thought the teams were doing it, tested their theory, and caught several teams out.
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u/dgonL Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
In the video you are linking, the lights are just not going off. There is a set time in which the lights must go off. This is clearly just a failure of the system, not the FIA tricking the teams.
Edit: I found the video of Driver61 explaining it, but there aren't any other sources confirming it.
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u/kayembeee Dec 09 '21
I thought I heard the drivers got audio signals for some things (like DRS) and I always assumed the lights were one of them
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u/TheMegathreadWell Dec 09 '21
They can elect to have beeps for certain things. Not sure if it's still legal, but they used to get beeps when they hit specific revs in each gear as prompts to shift up or down.
Not sure if there's any mechanism for them to get the beeps for the lights though, as that'd mean the car receiving a signal about when the race is going to start before it does - and the teams have found some genius ways to abuse that in the past.
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u/kayembeee Dec 09 '21
I’m getting downvoted but the shifting and DRS audio signals were absolutely a thing, if not still.
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u/Blomjord Dec 09 '21
Mercedes released a video on Youtube this year where Valtteri says he has the gear shift beep
Edit: https://youtu.be/Uj4s08jpqXc?t=164 at 2:45
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u/creatively_original Dec 09 '21
It was definitely a thing as I remember seeing an onboard with a driver where we could hear this (was a fair few years ago now). Not sure if it's still a thing but unless Regulation restrict it, I imagine it would be.
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u/CSG1902 Dec 09 '21
I think even Nico Rosberg said in one of his videos that he had to have that beep
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u/ALOIsFasterThanYou Dec 10 '21
I remember back in the early 2010s, there was some website selling t-shirts with "Respect the beeps" printed on them because we'd so often hear Guillaume Rocquelin telling Seb the same on team radio.
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u/ahalekelly Dec 10 '21
One of the drivers, I think Nico, even said that if a driver is shifting consistently early or late they will adjust the timing of the beeps instead of getting the driver to adjust.
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u/Centurion4007 Dec 11 '21
I'm pretty sure they can't have beeps for the race start because the cars don't have any connection to the start sequence. If the cars received a signal indicating the race start, it would be very easy to automate some of the start procedure and very difficult to police it. The FIA won't take that risk.
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u/BananaFPS Dec 10 '21
Red Bull even has audio messages for safety cars and VSC’s that tell them to remember to keep the delta positive.
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u/ShampooandCondition Dec 09 '21
Back in the old days of the v12s you would never have heard them. The cars were absolutely deafening. They add something now, but I do miss Murray Walker giving it “one light, two lights…” etc up until his famous GO GO GO
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u/RexManning1 Dec 10 '21
When I attend races I even hear the beep in my head at the start. Talk about brain rewiring.
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u/funkpolvo Dec 09 '21
Oh! Always wondered if they are audible through speakers so people in the stands could hear. With so much beautiful engine noise I think it would be pointless.
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u/GeneralOrdinance Dec 10 '21
Yeah I agree, people really underestimate the V6 engine noise. V10s are much louder and scream like a banshee, but the V6 engines aren't bad either - personally, they sound like sophistication to me.
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u/name_is_taken_alr Dec 10 '21
https://youtu.be/6cGTKHPR6qA I think this video kinda shows how it might sound in real life. I've never been to a live race but damn it's way louder than broadcast
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u/CatchThisEye Dec 10 '21
I have reason to believe that I will simply pass out at lights out this week-end
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u/Npr31 Dec 09 '21
I just wish they would have a different beep when they go out. Rather than silence. Get a real sense of something missing
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u/blur494 Dec 10 '21
There is a low sound effect but it is usually mixed so softly you can’t hear it over the commentators and engines
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u/britpop1970 Dec 10 '21
Anyone remember when the gap to the lights off was kinda random?
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u/Detroitredwinger Dec 10 '21
ITS LIGHTS OUT AND AWAY WE GO!!!! I still miss Murray walkers infamous GO GO GO!
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u/TheDahie Dec 10 '21
It may be an exception, but in Suzuka 2018 for Super Formula, they did the beeping on track and it gave a very strange Mario Kart vibe. :D
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u/tjsr Dec 10 '21
Kind of. We do get a closed/shorted-circuit when each of the lights is activated and take the pulse from that as a signal that goes in to timing systems. If guess maybe if you hooked that up to a speaker, technically it might beep.
But audibly, no.
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Dec 09 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DANKWINGS Dec 10 '21
I mean they chose the right time to get in because boy. The last couple years of this sport have been nothing but tragic. Boring stale racing.
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u/Sir0inks-A-Lot Dec 10 '21
Thank you for asking this question, it’s actually been something I’ve wondered for awhile but never had the courage to start a thread.
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u/Meaisk Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
No, they don't. I think they got added mid-season in the broadcast in 2018 to have a bit clearer excitement with race starts.