r/F1Technical • u/Sheyk_Y_Y Aston Martin • Jun 07 '21
Question/Discussion Why the different Halos for Vettel/Stroll?
203
Jun 07 '21
New part. They just have one for now and put it on Stroll's car.
50
u/LgnHw Jun 08 '21
i wonder how much longer they will give the new parts to lance
107
u/doorknob_knob Jun 08 '21
Since seb now leads in points between them, he'd get the updates first.
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u/_Jazzlife_ Jun 08 '21
I still think Lance would be getting updates as he is more comfortable with the car than Seb and can tell what difference it does to the set-up. But either way, I hope they bring good upgrades and possibly start looking into 22 ASAP
13
Jun 08 '21
Or it might just be the decided in briefing who gets it. New part doesn't necessarily means more performance so it's not necessarily a gift. Though, Vettel that starts to get used to the car doesn't want to have too much of a big change for now so he can keep is progress going. Even if it doesn't seem that halo being a major upgrade but that they can't really know before the race.
At least in interview Vettel never seemed bother by the fact that Stroll got the upgrades before him. It was maybe decided like that at the start of the season. It's not like they are fighting for the championship anyways.
10
u/Sharkymoto Rory Byrne Jun 08 '21
i think the aerodynamic effect of a change on the halo can be quite big since its standing up high in the wind.
but as previous comments said, its not neccessarily a gift to test new parts since they simply dont know how it will behave irl.
seb has been faster all weekend, so i doubt its a magical part that makes the car .5s faster.
the additional layer looks familiar from a certain black car on the grid, so maybe they got "inspired" and want to figure out if they can make it work in their favor.
12
u/doorknob_knob Jun 08 '21
Yeah, that makes sense. I was going based on their philosophy from previous seasons but I guess it would not be applicable with a new driver. Yeah 22 should be the focus right away.
1
u/HealthyScratch_ Jun 20 '21
Honestly, if Lance's dad didn't own the team Aston Martin's drivers would be Seb & Checo. I think (I will admit I have nothing to base this on) Seb would be able to tell how a new part affects a car better than Lance just from his greater experience. I'm not a fan of Lance (can you tell?). Baku really shows he thinks the world revolves around Lance when he said red flag, red flag! Really?
6
u/Youngwolff Aston Martin Jun 08 '21
I'd rather Lance gets the updates first and validates them before the team plonks it onto Vettel's car. Lance would be the lab rat, and Seb would get the updates which work as intended.
152
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u/ImGrumps Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
They talked about this on the PLC during one of the practices I believe. They pointed out that it was only on one car and I seemed to get the impression it was driver choice but I could have just inferred that on my own.
I think giving the new part, the changing variable, to the driver that is more comfortable with the car makes data collection more impactful.
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u/the_ranting_swede Jun 07 '21
Stroll is a bit taller that Vettel, so maybe they need different aero around their helmets.
73
u/earthmosphere Renowned Engineers Jun 07 '21
Driver height differences usually result in different pedal placement and seat height. You wouldn't alter the halo just because of a helmet as it would alter the aero effect on the entire package which wouldn't be worth it for a helmet alone, it's to compare the performance of it vs the old one.
45
u/the_ranting_swede Jun 07 '21
In one of the tech talks they were discussing the height difference between the two of the drivers on a team (I think it was Alpine) meant they were having issues with airflow discrepancy into the engine. So I think they adjust the pedal boxes as much as possible, but sometimes it's not enough.
17
u/Negabeidl69 Adrian Newey Jun 07 '21
I still don't get how it didn't really effect Russell, as he's like 10cm taller than Lewis and you could literally see his helmet sticking out.
19
u/santaclausonprozac Jun 08 '21
I’m sure it did make a difference, they just wouldn’t go out of their way to make major changes for 1, maybe 2 races. They adjusted what they could as far as they could and that’s it
2
u/erelim Jun 08 '21
It looks like the airbox is high enough and far enough from his head that it the effect would be negligible. I'd be curious to see the data though
1
u/Scatman_Crothers Jul 01 '21
He said it was uncomfortable as fuck at the time. Edges of carbon fiber digging in, scrunched up pedal foot, etc
8
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u/BTP_Art Jun 08 '21
You are correct. It was the huge difference between Ocon and Alonso. And it was very clear when Sam was showing it that Ocon’s head does impede air flow.
1
u/earthmosphere Renowned Engineers Jun 08 '21
That is true, it depends on the height of the airbox and such how much 'space' they have to work with, however it doesn't change the fact that they don't design Halos to accomodate the aerodynamics of a helmet.
0
u/the_ranting_swede Jun 08 '21
Why not?
0
u/earthmosphere Renowned Engineers Jun 08 '21
Read my first comment.
0
u/the_ranting_swede Jun 08 '21
Doesn't answer it, really. Why wouldn't they take into account a driver's helmet in aero? Is there some situation where they're getting points when drivers aren't in the car?
1
u/earthmosphere Renowned Engineers Jun 08 '21
It does answer it, the answer is they dont. The area behind a driver's helmet is relatively flat and designing/altering a whole rear of a package to align the aero profile of a helmet is absurd. Air from the front of the car is usually manipulated to avoid the helmet region so that it cannot affect aerodynamics. Halo designs will also alter the amount of air being directed to the helmet and more towards the airbox and engine covers towards the rear wing.
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Jun 07 '21 edited Jul 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/Ditka_Da_Bus_Driver Jun 08 '21
Any specific examples you could reference?
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u/rabbiolii Jun 08 '21
Back in 2018 Vettel had a third paddle on the back of his wheel, raikonnen did not. I think it’s the same case at Aston too
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u/snap68 Jun 08 '21
Stroll gets all the upgrades first to be able to bolster the fact that he beat a world champion over the course of a season...... Pffffft.
4
u/EllsworthTheBox Jun 08 '21
In the contrary, they lack enough data on the new design. Make Stroll the guinea pig, and keep the well known setup to Vettel. For example, the Barcelona upgrade that Haas ran in 2019 was a decent sized regression in performance, whilst the older Melbourne package was in fact better.
2
u/Ceramicrabbit Jun 08 '21
Haas 2019 isn't a fair comparison lol the teams are confident that upgrades will boost performance that's why they bring them along and test them in free practice, not the race. They aren't just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks, Haas 2019 was an extreme outlier example
-47
Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Blue_Shore Jun 08 '21
Because he’s actually a pretty good driver. Don’t forget Lauda was a pay driver and people still wank over him
-19
Jun 08 '21
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u/ResponsibleCicada8 Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
How is he not a good driver? You have to be damn good to get a chance to participate in F1. Also, even if his dad is a billionaire, he still worked hard to get where he is RN.
14
u/drewp317 Jun 08 '21
Of the multiple reasons i enjoy having him on the grid the best reason i like him is his actions in monza 2019. Vettel spun and when he went to turn around couldnt see behind him on the track and came out. Vettel hit Stroll and then stroll spun out. Stroll then did the same thing but didnt hit anyone. I think almost every other driver would be fuming and completely blame vettel and be absolutely irate.
Then vettel got a penatly and right after stroll got a penalty. For doing the same thing vettels was harsher ( which i get because he ruined strolls race) but stroll was mad he didnt get the same penalty as vettel and called the stewards unfair.
I have never seen a driver in a similar situation and say the stewards should have punished themselves worse and actually mean it. Honestly based off interviews and talent i would have guessed ocon was the billionaires son and not stroll
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Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/drewp317 Jun 08 '21
So the only reason you dont like a solid midfield driver that has achieved good results on merit is he has a wealthy dad who clearly loves him and wants to be happy
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u/santaclausonprozac Jun 08 '21
Because he’s actually a likable guy and a decent driver despite what a lot of people think?
-11
u/Skingle Jun 08 '21
100% disgaree
likable? LOL
4
u/Aviral_c22 Jun 08 '21
Let me guess? lando/McLaren fan that expects every driver to constantly be dropping meme references 24/7?
-5
u/Skingle Jun 08 '21
lol wrong, good guess tho. do like nando
not bragging at all fr, been watching since 08. so go ahead
3
u/maroonerooner Jun 08 '21
Watching since 2008 doesnt make you an F1 Index. Just say that you dont like him, you dont need to throw your bullshit around. But yea, go ahead.
1
u/Aviral_c22 Jun 08 '21
Well if you’ve been watchin since 08, you’d know lando and Nando are two very different drivers. One gets hated constantly and is a world champion, the other gets praise for driving the 3rd best car and putting it P5-6
2
u/Ceramicrabbit Jun 08 '21
I actually agree with him not being likable he has like no personality and his interviews are always awkward and like he's reading talking points.
I think he's not that bad of a driver anymore though, he definitely was promoted to F1 too quickly tho
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u/Mtb73 Jun 08 '21
I noticed in Baku Lando's car by the aero loop/air intake he had one camera pods/wings and Ricciardo's car had two camera pods/wings with endplates. Anyone know why they were running those different setups.
1
u/MugshotMarley Jun 09 '21
Even the mirrors design and mounting point is completely different. Maybe stroll trying out a newer setup?
1
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u/Yyes85 Jun 07 '21
Probably either testing it to compare with the current/old halo which would be the benchmark, or they only made one, probably both.