r/F1Technical • u/SollarAce • Feb 19 '21
Historic F1/Analysis A close-up shot of the incredibly complex Williams FW15C active suspension system
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u/ipSyk Feb 19 '21
They dead ass mounted their pushrods on a single shear bolt.
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u/fstd Feb 19 '21
Mounting rockers to the chassis in single shear is pretty common thing to do on monocoque chassis. This is very similar since the bolt is going where the rocker bolt would go if it had one.
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u/ipSyk Feb 19 '21
Common but still bad design since set up of high downforce cars is very compliance limited.
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u/fstd Feb 19 '21
Sure, but what's the tradeoff? This gets done on LMP1 cars, and one would presume those engineers are aware that single shear joints are less than ideal.
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u/ipSyk Feb 20 '21 edited Feb 20 '21
Is it done on LMP cars? All LMP suspensions I know have the PR_i and Rocker points in a YZ plane and in F1 only McLaren doesn‘t.
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u/fstd Feb 20 '21
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/HPDARX-01e-2.html
You can see it here on the HPD ARX-01, front and rear.
There's other examples if you just look at enough photos, I think one of the older Audi's (R8?) Had it on the rear. Oreca 03 had it as well (https://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/oreca-03/) and note that this was a very popular and widely used chassis.
It's also not all that uncommon on production street cars either.
Single shear is poor, but as with anything in engineering it's about the tradeoff. If you get something back by doing it it's not the end of the world. If you do it because you don't understand what's so bad about it, as engineering students tend to do, that's another matter.
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Feb 19 '21
Someone explain the suspension setup please?
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u/SpiNNks Feb 19 '21
The gold canister attached to the gold top cannister at the top is full of hydraulic fluid, no need for springs or shocks when the fluid does the job of both.
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u/SwissWasher45 Mar 28 '22
They fluid does not do the job of the springs, the nitrogen does it as liquid cannot be compressed, and the shock is replaced by a damper that slows the fluid down.
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Feb 19 '21
Isn't it usually mounted inboard with rocker arms??
Happy cake day fellow redditor ☺️
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u/SpiNNks Feb 19 '21
Thank you no need for rocker arms the fluid flows/is pumped through lines, just simple up and down struts. Also the big black ball at the back is the reservoir all controlled by computers to pump it where it needs to be.
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u/splashbodge Feb 19 '21
Williams really have been an innovative team, its such a shame they are at the back of the grid, over the years they have really come up with some interesting things. Like when KERS became a thing before Hybrid power units, they completely went a different direction to other teams, instead of using batteries using a flywheel instead. They ended up not using it for some reason but it did work, instead sold it commercially.
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u/Kociolinho Feb 19 '21
How far away it is from the Citroen's hydropneumatic suspension in terms of how it works?
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u/Andysan555 Feb 19 '21
I read a piece on here recently that was quite detailed and suggested that the system whilst impressive for the time was actually quite limited.
In a hypothetical scenario, which would perform better - 2020 non-active suspension or early nineties active suspension, assuming all other elements of the car were the same? Obviously the active cars had an advantage back then, but other elements of suspension design I assume have moved on since then.
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u/Gold333 Feb 19 '21
I doubt that. This car could be made to lean into corners, etc. No conventional setup can do that.
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u/Pentosin Feb 20 '21
Realisticly it would be ninties active suspension combined with the 2020 technology vs ninties active suspension.
Edit: Combined with 30 years of aero experiense/technology to fully utilize active suspension.
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u/austinwer Feb 19 '21
Seeing a zip ties in really complicated systems like F1 cars is funny to me regardless of how justified it is
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u/tjsr Feb 19 '21
I've always wondered why Williams never started selling modern/slightly improved customer or kit cars of the 15C. There would surely be enough potential customers to have got Williams out of any financial difficulties they might have been in.
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u/SportRotary Feb 19 '21
I had always assumed that this system still had springs and dampers, just with a hydraulic system in series. This looks like it's just a purely hydraulic system?
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u/SwissWasher45 Mar 28 '22
Hydropneumatic, it can't be purely hydraulic as the hydraulic fluid can't absorb the impact because it can't be compressed, that's why it requires the nitrogen.
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u/GodListensToSlayer82 Feb 20 '21
That's exactly what the suspension looks like on my WRX... promise.
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u/AlQueefaSpokeslady Feb 19 '21
I read somewhere the Lotus-Honda one used one of the camshafts to drive the hydraulic pump, robbing the engine of 19 hp.