r/F1Technical Oct 19 '24

Circuit Why have multiple tracks changed their kerbs like this this season?

I first noticed this at Silverstone earlier this year, that a few of the exit kerbs had been changed or extended. Now I’ve noticed the same at Cota.

Is this just to make the white lines wider so the cars can use more of the track without violating track limits?

Have any other tracks made changes like this? Why is it only happening this year?

447 Upvotes

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263

u/IndependenceRadiant6 Oct 19 '24

Something something homologate track limits

Staying tuned for the real answer but in COTA it looks like they have extended the track where Albon spun

193

u/AdventurousDress576 Oct 19 '24

The blue line is there to make it possible to use AI to monitor track limits.

33

u/AgroMachine Oct 19 '24

Have they actually said it’s ai monitoring or is it just speculation

59

u/Leslie20011503 Oct 19 '24

They said it on f1tv at the Austrian GP I believe. Or earlier but they have said it. It’s to create a clear colour distinction between kerbs and the edge of the track.

Whether it’s “AI” is the question but it’s definitely an algorithm.

84

u/EliminateThePenny Oct 19 '24

Whether it’s “AI” is the question but it’s definitely an algorithm.

Nah man, 'AI' is the tech buzzword of the first half of the 2020's to take the place of absolutely anything that a computer does. Analyze a video? AI. Autofill credentials on a website? AI. Run a VBS script? AI.

Just like 'blockchain' was for the back half of the 2010's.

14

u/my_beer Oct 19 '24

If something is described as just AI, it almost certainly isn't. If it's described as ML or an LLM then it might actually be AI.

3

u/eidetic Oct 19 '24

I'm not sure I'd characterize even LLMs as AI. Depends on context of course, but to grossly oversimplify things, they're basically advanced database queries. They don't really know anything.

For example, if you ask ChatGPT "is the sky blue?", it doesn't actually know what the answer is. It doesn't know what blue is, or what the sky is. It's just regurgitating an answer based on the data it's been fed without any form of understanding or anything like that. Again, an oversimplification, but I wouldn't characterize it as truly intelligent in any fashion.

9

u/linkheroz Oct 19 '24

An LLM is AI. Just a specific kind, generative AI.

2

u/my_beer Oct 20 '24

You're into philosophy at this point about how you define intelligence. LLMs can get closer to the classic 'can you tell you are talking to a machine' definition than anything previous.

2

u/Le-Charles Oct 19 '24

It's the 2020s version of Turbo in the 80s and 90s.

1

u/jsbaxter_ Oct 19 '24

Lol yeah I got excited I thought the discussion was about self driving race cars.

11

u/realbakingbish Oct 19 '24

Everything’s gotta be AI because buzzwords go brrr.

It’s computer vision. I was using that back in uni to track projectiles in videos to analyze their flight path as part of a first-year physics class. My research lab was using it on CT scans to speed up diagnoses of various medical issues. Self-driving cars and lane-keeping systems use it to stay in the lane. It’s not new technology, but it can be very effective under the right circumstances.

Now, whether computer vision qualifies as “AI”, that I don’t know. It’s just an algorithm, but then again, that same simplification could be applied to LLMs, too, if we want to be particularly reductive.

3

u/TheTuxdude Peter Bonnington Oct 19 '24

People have also started using AI and ML so interchangeably these days. I agree there are applications where they blend and overlap, but it's not always the case.

LLMs fall under the ML category and any algorithms that use any kind of ML trained models tend to be classified as AI these days (unfortunately).

1

u/cant_think_name_22 Oct 19 '24

I mean trying to see white raised vs white line is difficult for a human, I would think ai would be better than us at that

65

u/ine1900 Oct 19 '24

Beginning of the year the FIA incorporated this blue line track limits solution in their track design homologation manuals. So expect to see more of it .

2

u/Tigerbear62 Oct 19 '24

How come it’s only been at these two circuits? Shouldnt others with large runoff areas etc also have them in that case? I’ve seen now it’s also been implemented at Spain and Austria but surely there’s more tracks that would need it

2

u/snrub742 Oct 20 '24

Here it is at Silverstone

1

u/Tigerbear62 Oct 21 '24

Weird looks like they literally just painted over the old kerb

2

u/snrub742 Oct 21 '24

I am almost certain that's all they did in Austin also... You can see the textured curb in the black part

34

u/SampleAlone Oct 19 '24

10

u/Izan_TM Oct 19 '24

as far as I know this is now used in every corner where track limits are monitored

16

u/Clit_Eatswood250 Oct 19 '24

https://youtu.be/C6IWcAx3hW8?si=oHvIB3J3RXjm-UA3

This is a good video on how tracks are painted! Specifically around the 4:30 mark they talk about the blue line

3

u/itsgreen84 Oct 19 '24

Yeah. came here to post this.

The guy makes good videos.

9

u/noobchee Oct 19 '24

Clearer to see where the line was crossed for track limits

3

u/67PCG Oct 19 '24

I suspect the goal of moving the white line into the kerbs is to more closely align the official track limits (white line) with the amount of kerb that stops making sense for cars to take for optimal lap time.

That way there will be fewer penalties because it's not worth that much to go to the absolute limit in every lap.

Which I think is a pragmatic and sensible approach. Only drivers that go over the other side of the kerb get a penalty, which is clearly further out than anyone should be.

1

u/zeroscout Oct 19 '24

I suspect the goal of moving the white line into the kerbs is to more closely align the official track limits (white line) with the amount of kerb that stops making sense for cars to take for optimal lap time.  

The curb outlay is typically designed around the geometric line through a turn and the phases of the turn.  The braking zone, the apex, and the exit.  Tracks are used by many different types of vehicles and is not optimized for any specific type.  

That way there will be fewer penalties because it's not worth that much to go to the absolute limit in every lap  

Track limits are typically enforced at points where exceeding them will offer an advantage.  

Only drivers that go over the other side of the kerb get a penalty, which is clearly further out than anyone should be.  

Depends on where the track is.  There are differences in regulations on what point track limits are exceeded.  

3

u/5hadow Oct 19 '24

Easy solution. Make a strip or deep gravel at the edge of a corner. It’s not rocket science.

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16

u/P2P-BSH Oct 19 '24

Why don't you just watch a BOP series instead of watching something you don't like.

1

u/Tigerbear62 Oct 19 '24

Lol what happened here

1

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