Leon vs Zard and Alfia in one-on-ones. Who wins?

[u/Kiyoponkoji]

Now that it’s pretty much confirmed that Leon with his magic is even stronger than Ottar with beastification, how strong is he compared to Zard and Alfia? At the time of their first appearance, Oomori stated that Zard and Alfia were the strongest characters introduced in the series after Albert. Now Leon has been introduced. While I don’t think the weakened versions of Zard and Alfia after the fight with OEBD and the ones Orario defeated would be able to defeat Leon, do you think prime Zard and Alfia could? Personally, I think that although it would be a high diff fight, they would each be able to defeat Leon considering their own broken abilities and experience. What do you guys think?

[u/Zekrom997]

It took time for Leon to release the 12th Sword, Zard and Alfia can definitely take him out before then.

[u/Red-Haired_Emperor → u/Zekrom997]

powerscalers seems to miss the tactical point of a fight. prevent him from reaching that far is a downside from Leon Landenburg

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Zekrom997]

because? 

[u/Zekrom997 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

Because they're Zard and Alfia, they're the outlier that can punch above their level even among the monsters of Zeus and Hera Familia.

Just ask yourself if the matchup were something like Bete vs Alfia. Sure Bete has Hati, but do you really think Alfia gonna let him finish that chant before knocking him out?

The same applies for Leon, they won't let him reach the 12th sword.

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Zekrom997]

Leon can also surpass the level, so it doesn't mean anything. I agree with Alfia and Zard winning if they have powerful skills that we don't know about, but right now I don't see them as being stronger. beating a level 7 quickly isn't something that can be done easily. and then Leon power ups. 

[u/Zekrom997 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

These are the same L7s who can take out a floor 70 Juggernaut within 30 seconds. And especially Alfia isn't just a run off a mile Level 7, she is constantly in Limit Break mode with her stats surpassing 999.

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Zekrom997]

These are the same L7s who can take out a floor 70 Juggernaut within 30 seconds

This gives us absolutely no information to compare to other characters since no one has fought a Floor 70 Juggernaut. My theory is that a Floor 70 Juggernaut is as strong as a low level 8 so Leon can beat him too.

she is constantly in Limit Break mode with her stats surpassing 999.

no, only her magic is 2 points higher than limit. her agility is high, and her strength is low-mid. limit off is only confirmed to increase attack power, not something else. so Leon with buff to everything is better. 

[u/Zekrom997 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

People seems to misunderstanding the Floor 70 Juggernaut comparison, so I'll just ask this. "Can Leon take out Zard/Alfia within 30 second?" Or else he'll get obliterated just like the Floor 70 Juggernaut.

limit off is only confirmed to increase attack power, not something else.

Yes? Meaning it's more likely for Alfia to take out Leon first before he can. Leon said it himself that his magic is super inconvenient.

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Zekrom997]

People seems to misunderstanding the Floor 70 Juggernaut comparison, so I'll just ask this. "Can Leon take out Zard/Alfia within 30 second?" Or else he'll get obliterated just like the Floor 70 Juggernaut.

Omori just said that they win if they survive the first 30 seconds and then they can counterattack. There's not even a clear winner here.

Meaning it's more likely for Alfia to take out Leon first before he can.

her short spells are still only level 8 at best, in which case Leon, who has Endurance S and a skill that greatly increases his Endurance, and also has armor, can withstand quite a lot of hits, and the swords themselves will soften the blow a bit as well.

Leon said it himself that his magic is super inconvenient.

because he can lose in intense melee combat with someone before he activates a lot of buffs. on the contrary, Alfia, who stands at a distance and fires spells one at a time, is a convenient opponent for him. he creates a sword, she breaks it with her magic, and this is repeated 12 times. maybe he will need even less.

[u/Zekrom997 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

Omori just said that they win if they survive the first 30 seconds and then they can counterattack. There's not even a clear winner here.

Not even, it's overwhelmed, or even beaten to a pulp.

The tweet also mentioned that their reaction speed is faster than a floor 70 Juggernaut.

because he can lose in intense melee combat with someone before he activates a lot of buffs. on the contrary, Alfia, who stands at a distance and fires spells one at a time, is a convenient opponent for him.

The Alfia who despite being a mage, is positioned at the Vanguard. And humiliates the Loki and Astreaea Familia elites by stealing Ais's Durandal and overwhelmingly flex her swordmanship that she's gotten simply from watching Zard? Yeah, a convenient opponent alright.

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Zekrom997]

nothing said about Juggernaut still means anything to Leon, who has never been compared to it. 

The Alfia who despite being a mage, is positioned at the Vanguard.

this is just hype. she was called a mage twice, in MS20 and AR3. mage is her ultimate role. her melee was never even close.

And humiliates the Loki and Astreaea Familia elites

she is level 7. they are level 3-5. are you even okay? I can kill a bee so I can kill a dragon? what the fuck is logic? 

by stealing Ais's Durandal and overwhelmingly flex her swordmanship that she's gotten simply from watching Zard?

humiliating someone 4 levels lower... what a feat. Leon couldn't do it. no one can. 

Next time you want to brag about Alfia's close combat, never forget that a heavily injured level 3 Kaguya could scratch her with a sneak attack, but a healthy level 5 Allen couldn't do the same to Zard.

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

 Omori just said that they win if they survive the first 30 seconds 

Its 20 seconds, pizdabol shtopani 

[u/Critical-Tough1390 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

você se esquece, que a Alfia deve ter essa habilidade de superar as estátisticas desde de quando começou a se aventurar, e ñ se aplica só a magia, pois ñ sabemos as suas estatisticas de niveis anteriores, sem falar q ela ñ atualizou seus status desde da batalha contra o dragão

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Critical-Tough1390]

we don't have any indication that her past stats were any different than before, and even in a best case scenario she wouldn't have gotten far from 1000 due to how hard it is, so I'm going to completely ignore it.

[u/qwerty1513]

Prime alfia definitely, she could contend with her lvl 9 captian, and we dont know exactly how strong leon is compared to ottar. He could still be lvl 8 at his strongest.

As for prime zard harder to say, id give it to leon just because im basing this off zard without any boosts from a eating a strong monster. If zard had a decent meal kinda like what he had during his clash with ottar in astrea record then id give it to zard

[u/Adent_Frecca → u/qwerty1513]

The peak of what Zard could do was just after he ate Behemoth and got enough power to one shot it. Zard does get some permanent boost but years of degradation due to Behemoth's poison did not do him well

Then again, he is also one of the few people capable of fighting beyond his Level and matched with Alfia

[u/bingo5005 → u/qwerty1513]

I can’t help but imagine Zard like Suneater from MHA where he just carries around rare snacks for when he’s in a pinch.

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/qwerty1513]

I think you're missing the point of Zard's abilities a bit. What he eats ALWAYS makes him stronger. That's why Omori calls it a cheat ability. 

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/Fun-Response799]

They call it cheating because it can bridge the level gap, and if it was permanent then he could get to LV 10 which Omori said he can't so that means it can run out

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Round_Ad8067]

He can't reach level 10 power because his body can't handle it, not because the buff fades over time. And in fact we have many examples where adventurer overcomes the level difference thanks to buffs, but it is the Zard skill that Omori singles out as something cheating. AR3 says that among Z/H, the Zard skill is at the top. 

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/Fun-Response799]

Ok now I'm curious can you show me the line where Ar3 said Zard skill is at the top

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Round_Ad8067]

They had delved deeper into the Dungeon than anyone else, mapped out each of its floors, discovered how to unlock Advanced Abilities, and studied the best way to develop Statuses. It was safe to say that, without them, Orario would not be what it was today. The city’s history was their history.  Hidden somewhere in those thousand years of recorded history were Zald’s and Alfia’s secrets. After their familias crumbled, Finn had gone to the Guild to request it.  The Guild, with Ouranos’s blessing, agreed, thus pinning their hopes on a new generation of hero.  Reading those reports for the first time blew Finn’s mind. The Abilities those adventurers possessed were off the charts.  And Zald’s was the most unbelievable of them all.

I can also provide a link to the wiki that says it's at the top if you want. 

[u/Fun-Response799]

I don't think Omori will make him stronger than them. Both Zard and Alfia have a few undiscovered skills, though probably Alfia's antimagic is enough to strip Leon of his main ability, and Zard can try to defeat him before he breaks all his swords. 

[u/Round_Ad8067]

He loses to Prime Alfia but can wins against Prime Zard if he hasn't eaten any crazy strong monster.

He sweeps them both if AR

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Round_Ad8067]

His stat boosting always works. And prime Zard > prime Alfia. 

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/Fun-Response799]

Are you talking about Zard stat boosting cause I'm pretty sure he needs to eat for that and it doesn't last forever, also alfia is said to have a chance against a level 9 so I don't see how Zard is above her

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Round_Ad8067]

 Are you talking about Zard stat boosting cause I'm pretty sure he needs to eat for that and it doesn't last forever

He eats something and gains stats from it FOREVER. Omori said it was a pretty long process, but by level 7 the stat gain surpassed the level difference and was able to go even higher (mentions that the Zard skill is better than Gif Blessing). 

 also alfia is said to have a chance against a level 9 so I don't see how Zard is above her

You do realize that Zard has a chance against a level 8 and HE is the ONLY one who has been declared the strongest adventurer in the world, right? Zard has a chance to defeat someone who is stronger than level 9. 

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/Fun-Response799]

Ok I do have a few questions, where does the he gain it forever part come from, Omori also said he can't get LV 10 so it can't be permanent and where did he say it's better than gif blessing

[u/Fun-Response799 → u/Round_Ad8067]

I'll show the quote, but did you really think he's normally always at level 7 status? Omori explicitly says he's the one who has a chance to defeat the strongest adventurer in the world, I think that would be impossible if he just had level 7 status and in a normal fight, no one would let him eat something (and where the hell would something so strong come from during a fight that would give him that much power?) and why would Omori say it's an accumulative effect if the stats disappear over time? 

https://twitter.com/fujinoomori/status/1298632624320032771

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

Leon>Zard Prime>Alfia Prime>Ottar>Zard AR>Alfia AR. 

[u/Kiyoponkoji → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

This is the worst opinion so far.

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/Kiyoponkoji]

because? 

[u/PastWeb5579 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

Did you say something smart? Only I'll correct you: Alfia prime >>> Leon >>> Ottar > Zard prime. 

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/PastWeb5579]

I really needed to rework this. overestimated Leon too much. 

the final answer is Zard Prime>Alfia Prime>Leon≥Ottar>Zard AR>Alfia AR. 

[u/PastWeb5579 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

Why the hell is Zald so high, Leon's stat boost is much better than Ottar's and Zald’s. In addition, Leon has high strength, making him even harder to fight. He also has a sword that is a hundred times better than Ottar's and Zald's swords combined. 

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/PastWeb5579]

Why the hell is Zald so high, Leon's stat boost is much better than Ottar's and Zald’s. In addition, Leon has high strength, making him even harder to fight.

Leon is very strong at peak, but he is easy to kill early on before he gets all the buffs. He said himself that his magic is awkward.

He also has a sword that is a hundred times better than Ottar's and Zald's swords combined. 

if he uses his sword he doesn't use magic and doesn't buff, therefore he loses to those who have buffs. if he uses magic and buffs he will be killed before he reaches a high buff, and of course he can't use both his lightsaber and his main sword at the same time. 

[u/PastWeb5579 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

He has a skill that most likely greatly increases his strength and it becomes level 8, no one listed is capable of defeating him quickly. 

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/PastWeb5579]

You don't understand what the problem with his magic is. He creates weapons out of magic, and the first ones he made were so fragile that even Bell could break them, making his high Strength basically useless. Find a post in my profile about Bell and Leon' fight, it explains most of it.

[u/PastWeb5579 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

And what's the problem? Is there something stopping him from creating a new weapon in a short period of time? 

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34 → u/PastWeb5579]

A fragile weapon means that it will break on collision, and the enemy's sword will go on and threaten Leon' life. Almost all of Leon' techniques are attack-based, and his Agility is not very high, so he is unlikely to have time to dodge a blow at the last moment. He is also unarmed during the moment (1-2 seconds) when the previous weapon breaks and turns into particles that form the next weapon. Leon' first few weapons are so fragile that a level 6 can break them without much trouble, and someone like Zard/Ottar can easily break more than half of them in one hit. The number of situations where Leon will be close to death is too high to claim that he can effectively fight and win.

[u/PastWeb5579 → u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

You think Leon doesn't know about this? If it worked like that, he'd be long dead. But he's alive. He also fought enemies that are higher level than him, but still survived. He will easily get all his boosts and destroy them both. What level 8 can kill another level 8 in 2 seconds?