Potpourri? That's just stuff that fell off trees

[u/22trenchcoats]

[u/EarEnvironmental8134]

Are Mormons not allowed to drink tea? 

[u/LithiumPotassium → u/EarEnvironmental8134]

They can't drink "hot drinks", which they interpret to mean coffee and tea, including iced or cold variants. But herbal tea is ok, as is hot chocolate and other similar hot drinks. So it's not the actual temperature of the drink that's at issue. Nor is it the caffeine, because soda is allowed.

So it's specifically tea leaves and coffee beans they have to avoid for reasons.

[u/ferafish → u/LithiumPotassium]

So... hot² drinks? With hot=temp and hot=caffeine? Except wait, iced coffee it bad too... hm...

[u/Leipurinen → u/ferafish]

You’re gonna struggle to apply concrete logic like that to it. It basically boils down to “some church leader clarified that it means coffee and tea” and no further clarification has been given. The common rationale is that the counsel was given to avoid addiction, which both squares with the recommendations against alcohol and tobacco, and also allows the doctrine to be applied to drugs, which are not explicitly mentioned.

Hot chocolate and herbal teas are less addictive, and widely considered acceptable (though some also consider herbal teas to be prohibited because it’s still “tea”). There are mixed opinions in the church about caffeine. Some people think it’s not okay, some think it’s fine. Church leadership has been loathe to specifically clarify, probably because caffeinated sodas are exceptionally popular among members and the clarification would be poorly received in Utah, not to mention the broader member population.

[u/scourge_bites → u/Leipurinen]

Could be that in the dudes (cannot remember his name for the fuck of me. Joe?) time & place, hot drink was sort of just assumed to be coffee or tea. You know, like when we couldn't figure out the roman concrete recipe for a long time because they said to use water and we used water and it didn't turn out, but then we used salt water and oh boy! concrete! they never specified seawater because it was common knowledge. but then you change the place or the time and whoopsie!

[u/Leipurinen → u/scourge_bites]

Could be that in the dudes (cannot remember his name for the fuck of me. Joe?) time & place, hot drink was sort of just assumed to be coffee or tea.

That assumption is generally part of the explanation, actually. I’ve never cared to verify the historical accuracy of that claim, but that’s at least what I was always taught growing up. Specific clarification was necessary later as other hot drinks became commonplace, even though that meager clarification leaves the door open for other speculation and debate.

[u/DjinnHybrid → u/Leipurinen]

...I have unfortunate news. Hot chocolate is far, far older and was just as broad in terms of popularity as coffee was. In terms of it's introduction to Europe, it's honestly probably older because no one can agree on coffee's introduction in its entirety.

ETA caveat: I am very aware of the fact that it's introduction to Europe isn't the actual age. It's introduction to Europeans is what's most culturally relevant to this discussion. Either way, hot chocolate is older in actual age and is likely a good bit older in terms of European introduction.

[u/Leipurinen → u/DjinnHybrid]

Unsurprising, honestly. People make up lots of things to justify their religious beliefs logically, whether it’s true or not. It’s the primary reason I don’t participate in discussions anymore.

[u/scourge_bites → u/DjinnHybrid]

hot hot! oooh we got it! hot hot! say, we got it! hot chocolate!

[u/Defiant-Drawing1038 → u/Leipurinen]

huh. i wonder if leadership don't know that 'teas' that contain no camellia sinesis leaf are actually called "(herbal) tisanes", specifically because they contain no actual tea, or if they know but don't care because they're simply making shit up for fun

[u/Leipurinen → u/Defiant-Drawing1038]

I’ve never heard any kind of prohibition from leadership, only from peers. Lots of quirks like that are established by cultural convention rather than by official doctrine.

[u/ElectronicBoot9466 → u/LithiumPotassium]

For some Mormons, caffeine is a part of it. At parties in my middle school, there was always orange soda or some other caffeine free soda available for this specific reason.

[u/Informal_Truck_1574 → u/ElectronicBoot9466]

Yep. I make soda for a living, pretty much all of our caffeine free diet soda goes to bariatric patients, or mormons.

[u/Master_Bat_3647 → u/Informal_Truck_1574]

That sounds cool

[u/Successful_Smoke4921 → u/ElectronicBoot9466]

I’ve heard that they actually changed this rule because some soda company donated to the church

[u/Whispering_Wolf → u/Successful_Smoke4921]

That would be hilarious. Donate enough money and God will change the rules.

[u/Zamtrios7256 → u/Whispering_Wolf]

If the U.S. government denies you statehood, all of a sudden god is okay with monogamy

[u/aTransGirlAndTwoDogs → u/Whispering_Wolf]

Welcome to Mormonism. Listen to some of the stuff told by ex-Mormons or outside academics and, just, wow. It's so much nightmare fuel.

[u/Redingold → u/Whispering_Wolf]

It is an American religion, after all.

[u/ElectronicBoot9466 → u/Successful_Smoke4921]

It's different from community to community and family to family.

[u/OrdinaryAncient3573 → u/ElectronicBoot9466]

I find the idea that a school would permit students to drink sugary 'sodas', let alone caffeinated ones, is remarkably well-fitting in a discussion of Mormon beliefs being a little odd.

I know non-sugar-free soda is still a thing, but surely people don't feed kids caffeine anymore, do they?

[u/ElectronicBoot9466 → u/OrdinaryAncient3573]

Where are you from? Middle schoolers literally drink lattes these days, I was getting plenty of caffeine when I was a kid and modern kids still do.

[u/OrdinaryAncient3573 → u/ElectronicBoot9466]

UK. When I was in what you'd call high school, over 25 years ago, there was a fuss over removing fizzy drinks like Coke from the vending machine that only sixth formers had access to.

Of course what we did outside school was a different matter, but I don't think many kids drank caffeinated drinks regularly.

[u/ElectronicBoot9466 → u/OrdinaryAncient3573]

There were limitations on what was in the vending machines, but when we had class parties or late-night/overnight parties, teachers just brought in normal soda, they didn't care. As long as the mormons had their caffeine free soda and there was no alcohol it was all fine.

[u/UncagedKestrel → u/LithiumPotassium]

No, it's specifically caffeine, according to my copy of the Word of Wisdom.

I'm told that the Prophet conveniently changed the doctrine to allow caffeinated soda by "revelation" some few years back. The fact that the Church has vested huge amounts of money in stock of said soda companies is probably definitely just a coincidence.

So hot chocolate was fine, but most tea was considered off the table, as it contains caffeine.

[u/EarEnvironmental8134 → u/UncagedKestrel]

Learned something new today, I thought it was just coffee that Mormons didn’t drink! But the whole no caffeine thing makes those Utah soda shops I’ve heard about make way more sense.

[u/TacticalSupportFurry → u/LithiumPotassium]

for the record, i grew up mormon and around a lot of other mormons. my family was fine with soda, both caffeinated and non, though at least one other family i can remember didnt do any soda.

[u/Spindilly → u/LithiumPotassium]

I have learned new Mormon lore today, thank you!

[u/Punchedmango422 → u/EarEnvironmental8134]

They can’t have coffee so I think tea is off the menu too, they have soda shops as well as coffee shops to get caffeine.

[u/jaliebs → u/Punchedmango422]

soda shops are basically what utah has instead of bars

[u/nao-the-red-witch → u/Punchedmango422]

caffeinated teas (green and black? herbal was fine) and coffee, generally. They used to be really against caffeinated sodas in at least the 90’s and early 00’s until one of their prophets told them it’s fine. There’s speculation this is due to their (previous?) stock holdings in pepsi-co and coca cola but it’s not entirely substantiated.

[u/Zestyclose_Quit7396 → u/Punchedmango422]

There's a joke in the South about giving the Mormon kid Mountain Dew.

[u/Metatality → u/EarEnvironmental8134]

Caffeine is a tool of Satan to lead the righteous astray by letting them escape God's wrath for staying up too late

[u/jaliebs → u/Metatality]

no it isn't, warm drinks as defined in the great depression (somehow only meaning coffee and most teas (some herbal teas are kosher(lol wrong religion) i think?)) lead you astray, caffiene is their lifeblood. they drink more pop (soda, as most term it) than basically anyone else. their blood is dr pepper

[u/jaliebs]

i mean, too much nutmeg will have you having a bad time, but we're talking, like, many tablespoons of the stuff, not what you'd have in a tea

[u/TeslasMonster → u/jaliebs]

All I can think of is when people would take a whole spoonful of cinnamon, and cough it out in a giant puff of smoke

[u/jaliebs → u/TeslasMonster]

honestly i always thought that was more about aspirating powder than it was about cinnamon

[u/binkacat4 → u/jaliebs]

I mean, what happens there is that the powder absorbs all the moisture in your mouth and throat, which stops you swallowing it, so you cough it up again. The human body does have mechanisms in place for dealing with dust and such in our lungs, it’s just that certain things like asbestos and silicates can cause horrible damage despite those mechanisms.

[u/Leinad7957 → u/binkacat4]

The dangerous part of the cinnamon challenge is usually that you could choke on a big clump of wet cinnamon and dust. At least that's the thing that could kill you in that situation.

[u/TeslasMonster → u/jaliebs]

Oh shit. Yeah, that seems a lot more dangerous

[u/yuriAngyo → u/jaliebs]

yeah I found an old recipe book describing how to get high on nutmeg once. Guy talked about taking like 4 tablespoons, a little water, and mixing it into a disgusting sludge before drinking/eating it and having a really bad high. Iirc he did this all in like a prison or smth too, ppl really just do shit sometimes ig lol

[u/NoLime7384 → u/yuriAngyo]

he had nutmeg in prison?

[u/yuriAngyo → u/NoLime7384]

Idk I found the book like a decade ago lol. I think it was in some kind of holding conditions in a jungly country based on some descriptions, maybe vietnam? Or that could have been an entirely different part of the book and the nutmeg was just something he did for fun in his own home

[u/joofish → u/NoLime7384]

Smuggled from the kitchen. Malcolm X wrote about it in his autobiography.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/jaliebs]

For the record, it is impossible to trip off nutmeg by accident. That much will taste absolutely vile no matter what you mix it with.

[u/Godraed → u/PhasmaFelis]

“Woops had too much pumpkin pie. Wait why are there spiders coming out of the vents?!?!”

[u/Jupiter_Crush → u/jaliebs]

They sell nutmeg vapes at head shops now. I've had deliriant experiences before so I give them a wide berth but yeah, anyone can go inhale enough nutmeg to meet the hat man now.

[u/The_Screeching_Bagel → u/jaliebs]

oh let me tell ya what eating ~20g of powdered nutmeg before going to school will do

[u/PoniesCanterOver]

Is OOP actually Mormon or was that other person just doing a dunk?

Is "The Torments" a Mormon thing or was OOP just doing Internet Speak?

[u/nao-the-red-witch → u/PoniesCanterOver]

Dunking on the naive paranoid innocence of the concern. Mormons are also known for being anti-tea, which adds to the connection over using an analogue like a ‘pearl clutching evangelical’ or ‘baptist grandma’

‘The Torments’ is internet speak.

[u/Leipurinen → u/PoniesCanterOver]

‘The Torments’ sounds more like a tumblrism than a Mormon thing

[u/ElectronicBoot9466 → u/Leipurinen]

Ha, jokes on you, all internet slang actually comes from LDS

[u/Smashifly → u/PoniesCanterOver]

Quick search for the OP's blog shows "used to be a Mormon" in their bio.

[u/Teagana999]

That sounds like mulled wine without the wine.

[u/MoltenVoid → u/Teagana999]

I'd love a glass of mulled right about now.

[u/Zamtrios7256 → u/MoltenVoid]

Love me a glass of spiced

[u/Plethora_of_squids → u/Teagana999]

Here in Scandinavia you can actually get the mulled part of mulled wine as just a cordial you can put in things. Normally you're meant to put it in wine to avoid faffing around with simmering spices, but there's nothing stopping you from making a normal glass of cordial with your spiced syrup stuff (though normally you're meant to add it to hot blackberry juice for a non alcoholic version)

[u/Teagana999 → u/Plethora_of_squids]

I bought a bottle of spice syrup meant to be added to wine when I was in the UK.

[u/Plethora_of_squids → u/Teagana999]

From what I can gather though it's not really like an entire massive cultural thing, while here spiced cordial/glogg is as important to Christmas as cake or roast pork.

[u/Nerdn1]

All of those ingredients are edible. There are some pleasant smelling plants that are poisonous. Some pine needle varieties can be toxic. There are also some edible things that can become unpleasant if you have too much or prepare it incorrectly.

[u/FPiN9XU3K1IT → u/Nerdn1]

Cinnamon can definitely give you a bad time if you ingest a lot of it.

[u/georgia_grace]

Is no one gonna mention that this is in no way potpourri?? That it bears no resemblance to potpourri whatsoever??

[u/SeaSmoke57 → u/georgia_grace]

https://bonnieplants.com/blogs/recipes/herbal-tea-stove-top-potpourri This is a recipe I found online that makes potpourri or tea depending on how the ingredients are used. Orange slices are there, and it does say to add cloves and cinnamon in holiday times. But idk potpourri that well tho.

[u/georgia_grace → u/SeaSmoke57]

Potpourri is a bunch of dried flowers in a bowl, intended to make the room smell nice. Store bought potpourri usually has artificial colours and fragrance added to it.

I just googled stovetop potpourri and it seems to be a newish term for “a thing that performs the same function as potpourri (make room smell good), but made on the stove”

If OOP was actually drinking potpourri juice instead of mulled spice water then yeah I think it probably would make them sick lol

[u/22trenchcoats → u/georgia_grace]

I also wondered why they thought potpourri was wet

[u/healzsham → u/georgia_grace]

Yeah, normal potpourris tend to include a lot of flowers and whatnot, and all I really know about flower toxicology is "some are poisonous, so be careful," which makes OOP's concern more reasonable.

[u/Downindeep]

Out here drinking Mulled Water like a madman.

[u/Green__lightning]

No that's valid, and nutmeg is actually psychoactive if you eat enough of of it.

[u/angelposts → u/Green__lightning]

Remember learning about different drug classes in intro to psych and the prof said "Nutmeg is a hallucinogenic, but there's a reason no one uses it recreationally: after the pretty short high, three days of the worst diarrhea you'll ever have."

[u/Green__lightning → u/angelposts]

Isn't it actually a deliriant?

[u/GrinerForAlt → u/Green__lightning]

And boiling something for hours makes it more than just a herbal tea.

I mean, it is still probably not bad or anything, but it is not ridiculous to check.