Dear future military shooter games, please don't do this.

[u/Several_Repeat_1271]

[u/nisanosa]

That's what happened to Rainbow Six Siege.

[u/North-Apartment9355 → u/nisanosa]

Siege had so much potential

[u/nisanosa → u/North-Apartment9355]

Siege is still very successful tbh. It could never reach the levels of Counter Strike or Fortnite tho, because it just too complex for the masses.

[u/VoxAeternus → u/nisanosa]

It never will reach that level because the Engine its on was made for Assassin's Creed, and is such spaghetti code now, that any major change causes game breaking bugs, and prevents them from dealing with hackers in an effective way.

[u/nisanosa → u/VoxAeternus]

That's true, bugs and glitches are also a big part why this game didn't get even bigger.

[u/FrostWyrm98 → u/VoxAeternus]

Honestly especially after Operation Health (year 2?), it was never really all that bad. Performance was never really an issue imo especially compared to the abysmal optimizations of today's games but especially then I could cook out consistently over 100fps on a 1080ti with medium to high settings.

They had something going with their optimizing collisions and pre-baking destruction based on when you place Explosives (your client renders some pre-emptively hence the long animations, and informs the server to start as well). There was a cool talk on it from a Ubi Tech Lead that I did a write up on for game programming course in college.

[u/VoxAeternus → u/FrostWyrm98]

Don't get me wrong the game runs well, and that's not the issue.

The largest problems I see are major bugs that have been quashed and reappeared years later multiple times. That combined with the hacking epidemic and its just never was going to be taken seriously enough to be on the level of CS, Fortnite, or COD.

[u/FrostWyrm98 → u/VoxAeternus]

Yeah absolutely you're not wrong about bugs and exploits. I have no clue how they pop up as often as they do. Hacking also agree, BattleEye has seen better days for that game

[u/nisanosa → u/[deleted]]

Never played Full spectrum warrior. I'll look into it.

[u/-insertcoin → u/nisanosa]

Full spectrum warrior was an amazing og xbox game

[u/North-Apartment9355 → u/nisanosa]

It’s an old game, nothing impressive graphics wise, but it was so much fun to play. I really wish this was still a genre

[u/Mighty_racoon → u/nisanosa]

Full Spectrum Warrior was a great tactical game. IIRC, it was actually created for military training - there's even still a cheat code that returns the game to its base "training sim" mode that is way less forgiving, going so far as to change the way certain cover works.

[u/Whiskeywiskerbiscuit → u/nisanosa]

It depends. I think both Fortnight and CS are more mechanically complex than Seige but Seige is much more strategically complex.

You can’t watch two cracked out teens in a crazy build battle in high level fortnite and say that’s not complex. You’d just be lying to yourself

[u/MVeinticinco25 → u/nisanosa]

Many of games are more complex (dota, league, etc) and 10x more popular, it didnt get popular because it feels to slow and clunky (and i say this after playing for hundreds of hours)

[u/Carpavita]

its okay if fortnite does this. its not okay when COD does this

[u/Northern_Gypsy → u/Carpavita]

Yeah cod's pretty much unplayable now. I had to get the 360 out to play some CoD4 and World at war, so much better.

[u/Wulfgar_RIP → u/Carpavita]

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six.

Yep, it turned into rainbow game.

[u/YoshitsuneCr → u/Carpavita]

Fortnite might be a goofy game with goofy skins but at least works, idk why the fuck people still play CoD nowdays by how un-optimized/broken the game is...

[u/hapl_o]

Battlefield 2042 barely stopped this from happening.

[u/Zlautern → u/hapl_o]

The skins in it are pretty bad but not as cartoony as cod/fortnite. That Santa skin had people raging.

[u/Lukeuntld072_ → u/hapl_o]

Dont be sad thats just how it is sometimes

[u/TaiKorczak → u/hapl_o]

And Battlefield 5 after that trailer backlash

[u/Tuck_and_Cover]

What, you don't like the Rainbow Six Siege: Rainbow is Magic event?

[u/memefarius → u/Tuck_and_Cover]

A jokey 1st of April event is one thing. Having 2b and master chief is an entirely different thing

[u/TechPriestOBrien]

Unfortunately pandora’s box is wide open on this shit and it will never be shut because 12 year olds and basement dwellers use their moms credit cards on this nonsense to the tune of multi millions.

It makes too much money for them not to make hideous, out of place, and downright stupid skins.

The last time I ever played a CoD was when I got t-bagged by fucking Nicki Minaj and I had the thought “didn’t these games used to be about the military?”

[u/Astrali3 → u/TechPriestOBrien]

You know, I'm just gonna say it.

You getting t-bagged by Nicki Minaj is hilarious and a great argument for this to continue, lmao.

[u/Ok_Digger → u/Astrali3]

Whats the point of gaming if not to have fun. If you want a realistic military shooter theres plenty on steam your playing a game that has to appeal to everyone

[u/killer_corg → u/[deleted]]

Oh no the arcade shooter with zero realism has a gundam skin. It’s too scary.

If you want a milsim game, maybe play a milsim game

[u/InTheBoxDev → u/[deleted]]

what did the comment say

[u/killer_corg → u/InTheBoxDev]

Cod is an arcade shooter where you slide walk across the ground… when was it military? 15 years ago?

I guess I hurt someone’s feel feels

[u/BetterThanNorka]

Blame the users, the stuff at the bottom sells.

[u/Frost_Aegis]

Perhaps this could be solvable by having a toggle option, like one that says 'Silly Skins: Enable/Disable'? And then skins like these would not be visible to those who toggle that while allowing people who want to see/use them the ability to still do so?

Considering the market for it, I don't think it's going to get better. If anything, it will get worse, so I think the most pragmatic path forward we can hope for is the option to disable them on a per person basis.

[u/anyadpicsajat → u/Frost_Aegis]

If it could be turned off, fewer people would purchase said skins.

[u/omguserius → u/Frost_Aegis]

That would not work. That would not work at all.

I paid good money to look this gaudy, and you WILL see how cool I am.

[u/Pleasant_Ad_5753]

Don’t forget the zombies. They are played out as well

[u/KARMIC--DEBT → u/Pleasant_Ad_5753]

Nothing wrong with horde modes but these days they just don't hit the same. I tried black ops 6 and I just don't like the cold war zombies v2 gameplay.

[u/Pleasant_Ad_5753 → u/KARMIC--DEBT]

I’d say at this point it’s more a matter of not insulting my intelligence with the same copy and paste DLCs that add zombies for extended gameplay.

And all of us should have a scenario in our heads that has a CEO, CFO and the whole lot of them rubbing together their grimy little paws staring at pie charts and investment projections for shareholders and projecting how the same played out formula of zombies, aliens, and unicorn farts is going to squeeze that extra 1% profit out of gamers that are sick and tired of unoriginal gameplay.

Rant over: I’m just done with it. Bring on the indie game developers. I hope they take over.

[u/Ok-Zombie-1787 → u/KARMIC--DEBT]

Cod4 zombie server is still active if you're interested, it's called FNRP Rotu

[u/EpicCargo]

I swear they do this just bc they don't know how to even milk the players much. I remember like over 10 years ago. So much shooters and they never had goofy ass skins. It was all realistic. Remember Combat Arms? Goated game.

[u/KnightyEyes]

Helldivers.

But here is good news, They collab'ing with things that fit the game.

[u/zergoon → u/KnightyEyes]

For now...

Hopefully they keep it that way.

(Though personally I'd prefer if they didn't have collabs at all, keep the Helldivers game in the Helldivers universe)

[u/Le_Bnnuy]

That's why I transitioned to Tarkov, best FPS I've played on years.

[u/armoman92 → u/Le_Bnnuy]

does it have TDM, or some kind of of area control, multiplayer gametypes?

[u/Le_Bnnuy → u/armoman92]

It does on the Arena expansion, but I'm not even talking about those, just the base Tarkov (extraction shooter) is a blast, it's unique.

[u/thanks-doc-420]

You mean like SQUAD? Hell Let Loose? Ready or Not?

[u/TheToaster1350]

Please never let Helldivers become like this

[u/BodybuilderLiving112 → u/TheToaster1350]

We will refuse to support that O7

[u/JustaDumbassme → u/TheToaster1350]

I'm almost positive that they want to keep it lore accurate with their armor and stuff. So I wouldn't worry too much.

[u/meeps20q0 → u/TheToaster1350]

Yeah i personally dont mind too much if its skins that fit the vibe like killzones not too bad, a 40k skin might be cool, or a halo spartan. 

But the second they try selling a celebrity or cat esrs or some shit the game will forever be cooked. 

[u/Healthy-Daikon7356]

plenty of pc games that do this. Console games are cooked rn

[u/ThatOneGuy216440]

Black ops 6 didnt even have that. They started with the clowns at the beginning.

[u/JudasRex]

I implore you all, my brothers in grief, to get gudder and give 'Hell Let Loose' a shot. Multiple shots.

While it is not an arcade shooter like every other pop fps has become, it really hits different once you get past the steep curve. If you have it in you, you won't be disappointed.

The toughest part is getting your crew migrated, but in my experience those who have come have unilaterally turned sour of shooting teens in pink furry bodysuits.

It's a fifth of the price of a major label game and it's dev team is five times better than them too.

Platoon based, requires a mic, rewards you for being a champion. No shields, no rocket packs, no 360 noscopes.

[u/LordKrunk69]

Players have proven they want these skins

[u/Gwyneee → u/LordKrunk69]

And how do the players who dont want it prove it? They cant. And that doesnt directly make them money so there's no incentive. But indirectly there is. That used to be COD. Something aesthetically cooler that players can take more seriously. So much so I wonder if there's room in a market to maximize on that 🤔

[u/VolcanicVortexx → u/Gwyneee]

Delta Force doesn't have skins like that. Not yet at least. It's more like battlefield though and it has a battle Royale mode.

[u/Gwyneee → u/VolcanicVortexx]

Never heard of it before now. Sounds like my sort of thing

[u/LivelyHavoc]

At least give us an option to turn it off.

[u/Content-Dealers → u/LivelyHavoc]

I'd pay $5 so I didn't have to see everyone else's dumbass skins and just a default soldier type.

[u/Vahlir → u/Content-Dealers]

marketing just called. You can pay 5$ PER-SKIN to own them or 5$ Per-skin to turn them off

[u/Content-Dealers → u/Vahlir]

Can I pay $10 to remove the skin from someone else's account?

[u/armoman92 → u/LivelyHavoc]

Counter Strike Source had a console command called "cl_minmodels 1", that did just this (clientside). Even Valve got rid of it for CS:GO and beyond.

I stopped playing COD because of the tiger-cammo skins clown show, I lose my immersion very quickly.

[u/Johnsworth61]

I just played World at War today and wow… what a difference between that and what we have now.

[u/Gokwds3]

I tried the new cod in gamepass yesterday, and I was shot by some kind of green demon with a wings, and other nonsense. I searched for an option to switch off the skins but nothing.
I uninstalled it .

[u/catluvr37]

What, appeal to their primary demographic?

[u/stone1132]

I miss black ops zombies, where you could play as Danny Trejo, Freddy Kruger, Buffy the Vampire slayer, Kennedy, Nixon, and Fidel Castro. It all somehow made sense in the lore too lmao

[u/SpiderDoof]

You're missing Nicki Minaj & Kevin Durant.

[u/desertterminator]

Yeah can't wait for Ready or Not to let me play as Sonic.

[u/Fit-Wolverine8384]

That unironically was the reasoning why Battlefield 2042 was designed as a Battle Royal up to 2 years before its release.

You can't sell many cosmetics if every player in your team has the same military faction outfit. You can sell endless if you instead have 20 individual "operators".

[u/throwaway195472974]

But then the company can earn more money and sell more skins.

Great games such as CS2 became a clown show. Almost no new content but skins get added into the game. And "charms" to attach to guns. weird.

[u/cold607]

call of duty?

[u/Sensitive_Ad_5031 → u/cold607]

And battlefield to an extent

[u/brap01]

OP thinks corporations are going to turn down free money.

He doesn't realize that selling colourful bullshit is why these games are made in the first place.

[u/Anoticerofthings]

It seems to be what people want. There are more grounded military shooters. Squad comes to mind.

[u/harry_lostone]

As long as I have the option the be the "at launch" player, I don't mind killing the "several seasons later" players.

just don't force me at it, and honestly idgaf

[u/JAC0O7]

Define military shooter games. Most shooters are arcady and for young audiences anyway. You want a real military shooter, play squad.

[u/Tian-0306]

insurgency sandstorm >

[u/life_lagom]

Unironically I stopped playing call of duty b.c of this, it just wasn't for me..they chased fortnite. If I wanted all those skins I'd play fortnite...

But im now playing marvel rivals. So I didn't necc hate the goofy shit I just wanted my genres to be seperate

[u/dek018]

The influence Fortnite has had over competitive games is just awful...

[u/tgunz0331]

Fuggin' PUBG.

[u/coffeekitkat]

Thats the moment when they layoff the OG devs (with 10x salary multiplier) and replaced them with new/entry "modern" ones so the salary multiplier resets to 0x

[u/armoman92]

All we need is "cl_minmodel 1" (a command from Counter Strike Source that disables custom skins.) Let users experience vanilla/base skins locally, AS THE GAME WAS ADVERTISED TO THEM!!!!!

[u/Black_dog_knight]

the companies are also doing this because gamers keep buying the skins ….if gamers only wanted more realistic accurate skins then that is what the company would make. The market will decide

[u/JadedLeafs]

Man I don't usually play games like cod but it was on gamepass so I figured why not. It's alright I guess but I can't get over the ridiculously colourful random skins. Makes them easy to see I guess. Other dumb shit like guns looking like they're firing glitter or some shit.

[u/Suitable-Piano-8969]

So true, hate when games ascetics are broken by skins

[u/PhantomPain0_0]

Play inusrgency sandstorm one of the best and most underrated military shooter

[u/papigigachad]

Loved BO6 at launch. Stop playing after every skin they released was crazy ridiculous. Dragon, shark, parasite, etc. It’s so stupid

[u/Radiant-Story1879]

It's just missing skibidi toilet guy

[u/Mister_Shrimp_The2nd]

PUBG is screaming right now

[u/MasterBlaster691]

That's just the market, they are businesses, they want to make the most money possible. Go to games that don't do this.

[u/CUTTERBEAR]

If you want that play escape from tarkov or the old Battlefield games. The tides turned on what is profitable

[u/fangytasuki]

I don't even understand who the target audience is anymore. Is Gen Alpha or Z into this crap?

[u/Rdp616]

I'm just so sick of "skins" and all this other bullshit. What makes it even more ridiculous is you can't even see your own player lmao.

[u/VLD85]

this is what's happening to Helldivers 2 right now.

please don't do that stupid stuff with "collaborating".

[u/ShoppingPractical373]

OP has no idea how the market works.

The players voted with their wallets. They like these kinda stuff. Hence devs get away with it.

[u/BodybuilderLiving112 → u/ShoppingPractical373]

Your plate is empty...you don't like broccoli but I can only give you broccoli..... don't buy it if you don't like it. ( That's your metaphor of the market)

[u/PurpleCopper]

Impossible. Devs will be scraping the bottom of the barrel when trying to sell more microtransaction content. Desperate times calls for wacky shit. When was the last time a multiplayer game came out that didn't jump the shark?

[u/Icollectshinythings]

Every call of duty since 2012

[u/hosseinhx77]

What's the benefit for them for not doing it? the purpose of making games is to make money in the first place

[u/ThrutheWirez]

As long as goofballs spend $ on this nonsense it will continue unfortunately

[u/HipEddy]

Please DO this!!!

[u/cylonfrakbbq]

OP is missing a few points

1) Troll factor: Some players in shooters pick the most troll like skin because they feel it enhances the embarrassment of whoever they gank. Which feels worse to be on the receiving end of: Getting shot and teabagged by some gruff looking guy in body armor, or getting shot and teabagged by someone in a rainbow teddybear outfit? I've learned over the years that "griefers" gravitate towards goofy skins

2) People want to stand out/flex their RMT: Let's be honest...there's only so much you can do with realistic outfits in terms of how much they stand out. Players who buy skins usually are looking for 3 main things: Gameplay advantage (IE, the super dark skins that make you hard to see in certain environments), trolling, or they want to show off their purchase. If your realism outfit doesn't stand out much from the other realism outfits, then it doesn't have as much appeal.

[u/hiisthisavaliable]

Squad will be this in a year

[u/AimLessFrik]

I don't really get this complaint, let people enjoy things gramps. No it's not about immersion, not even remotely before anyone brings it up.