A lesson to learn from the fall of Ancient Rome

[u/godzillavkk]

You know, one of the reasons the Roman Empire fell, was because the gap between the haves and the have nots grew too wide. So wide, that the employee and client relationship became the lord and serf relationship as Roman citizens found their rights stripped away more and more until they were naught but property owned by feudal landlords. And the citizens weren't alone in this. Slaves also joined them in this new social group. I bet the upper classes played citizens and slaves against each other to keep them from figuring it out. And if any did figure it out, they probably figured it out too late, or were silenced by those with power or those too blind to see the truth.

Now history is repeating itself. This so called USA is failing. And the common people, LGBT, ethnic or religious minorities, the mentally ill, poor and homeless... their all being played against each other. Fortunately, this time there are those among these groups who see the truth. But currently they lack the will to act on it. Or at least they have not found a ripe opening to make a good move.

So what would a good opening be?

[u/Hour-Locksmith-1371]

That’s not really true. It was an agricultural slave society, probably 5% of the population controlled the wealth, and it was that way from the beginning to the end

[u/SailingSpark]

unfortunately, most people need to be forced into it. The public doesn't want violent overthrow of any government. It's just something that happens and sweeps the people up in it.

[u/godzillavkk → u/[deleted]]

If only my own parents could see the truth. But they were raised in the 50's and 60's. And never came to accept that much of what they were taught about communism, socialism, and anarchism was capitalist propaganda. Instead they think "I am older, wiser, and therefore always right. Mangione should have worked in the system to change it." Not to mention they flip-flop between viewpoints... maybe even deliberately. After George Floyd's death, I was misled by racist news and was chewed out by my family for it. Later when I accepted the truth, they adopted my old views.

[u/adampoliak → u/godzillavkk]

Speaking about capitalist propganda, lets mention socialist propaganda aswell so repeat after me: Problems of our society roots from state, not capitalism.

[u/FaceSitMeToDeath]

op your post sounds very much like class reductionism.

Are marginalized folks in their struggle for liberation considered equivalent to those who seek to strip them of personhood?

this 'culture war is a distraction' platitude is less than helpful when one considers the different ways in which people are oppressed and seems to be mostly directed at left and lib/center-right communities. how about you work on convincing reactionaries to quit scapegoating queers and brown folks?

tldr, solidarity>unity, justice>peace

[u/ADavidJohnson]

Everyone can look at the Roman Empire and explain why it fell according to their own pet interests because it lasted for nearly two thousand years depending on when you want it to have started and ended (753 BCE to 1453 CE), and people will say it was in decay for the vast majority of the time it existed as a kingdom, oligarchic republic, unified empire, and remnant empire.

Political entities aren’t supposed to survive massive military defeats, frequent civil wars, apocalyptic plagues, climactic shifts, or continent-wide population influxes/invasions.

If you’re a leftist, sure, the wealth inequality of slaver society or inability to extend citizenship to new groups to fully incorporate them into “Romanness” are all things that you can argue sincerely doomed Rome to ultimately fall apart. But human societies don’t tend to maintain that sort of continuity regardless of what people do.

If we’re being honest, we are not doing much better than the marble bust pfps when we look at “Rome” and try to come away with the pat lesson we already want for our own societies.

[u/SevenHolyTombs]

You should google 'Secessions of the Plebeians'. And although we'd never be strong enough to defeat our Empire head on the story of Christianity is a story of subversion.

[u/clarkky55]

Rome fell because it got too big and corrupt, too many people interested in their own gain rather than furthering the empire.