First things first: I am NOT one of those expats/repats who is going to try to discourage you from moving. I whole-heartedly believe that if your heart is telling you to move abroad, you should do it if you can. Everyone's path is very different when it comes to moving abroad and you can only know what it'll be like when you try. You don't want to ever wonder "what if".

I am happy I moved to the Netherlands. Here are some pros that I experienced while I was there:

• I lived there long enough that I now have dual US/EU citizenship. So I can move back and forth whenever I want. (NOTE: you can only do this in NL if you are married to a Dutch person, which I am)
• I learned that I am actually quite good at language learning and enjoy it a lot. I learned Dutch to a C1 level and worked in a professional Dutch language environment. It got to the point where I was only speaking English at home.
• I made a TON of friends. I hear from a lot of expats that it is hard to make friends with Dutch people and this is true if you are living an expat lifestyle (speaking mostly English, working in an international environment). If you learn Dutch and move into the Dutch-language sphere within the country, making friends is actually super easy.
• I got good care for a chronic illness that I have (more about this in the CONS section)
• I had a lot of vacation time and great benefits at work. I could also call out sick whenever it was warrented and didn't have to worry about sick days and PTO.

But here are the CONS that led to us ultimately moving back:

• Racism and antisemitism. I am Puerto Rican and in NL I was not white passing at all. The constant blatant racism was just relentless. People following me in stores. Always asking me where my parents were from. People straight-up saying I was a drain on the economy without even knowing that I worked and paid taxes. I'm also Jewish and did not feel comfortable sharing that because I *always* was met with antisemitism even before this war started.
• Glass ceiling. I moved from an immigrant-type job to a job where I could use my masters degree and it was immediately clear I was not welcome in that environment. I was constantly bullied about my nationality, my accent, my work style. It was "feedback" that I have never received before or since. I ended up going back to my dead-end job because I couldn't handle the bullying. This is the #1 reason I wanted to leave.
• Salary. My husband was able to triple his salary by moving back to the US. I will probably double mine. This will improve our lifestyle significantly.
• Investing. Because of FATCA it is incredibly hard as an American to invest in anything. I was building a state pension but I could not invest on my own.
• Housing. We had a house and we had money to purchase a home but our options were extremely limited in what that home would look like and where it would be.
• Mental healthcare. I mentioned above that I was able to get good care for my chronic mental illness. This was, however, only after 2 years of begging and pleading my GP for a referral. Even after getting a referral, the waitlist was 8-12 months for a specialist that spoke English. I ended up going to a Dutch-only specialist and getting good care, but I had to learn Dutch first. I also worked in the public mental health system and I can tell you now, you will not get good care for mental illness if you do not speak Dutch.
• Regular healthcare. The Dutch culture around pain and healthcare is so different from what I'm used to. They do not consider pain and suffering to be something that needs to be treated in and of itself. A doctor will send you home unless you can show that you have had a decline in functioning for a long time or you are unable to function. Things like arthritis, gyn-problems, etc do not get treated until you can't work anymore.
• Driving culture. I did not want to get a driver's license at first because it costs about 3000 euro and like 6 months of your time EVEN IF you already have an American license. I ended up hating bikes by the time we left and I will never ride a bike again. The upright bikes gave me horrible tendonitis. If I had stayed, I would have gotten my license, but the entire driving culture in the Netherlands is a huge scam and money sink. I don't care what people say, you need a car and a license in the Netherlands if you live outside the Randstad and want to live a normal life, and then the state literally takes you for all your worth if you want a car.
• Immigrant identity. I say often that I was living an "immigrant" life as opposed to the expat life. This is because I was working and living in a fully Dutch environment. All my friends, coworkers, clients, and in-laws only spoke Dutch. English was never an option. This forces you to kind of take on the identity of the weird foreigner who speaks with an accent. All four of my grandparents were immigrants to the US and experienced this and flourished. For me, it made me constantly self-conscious which turned into self hatred and bitterness pretty quickly. It was not that I think immigrants should be hated, it just felt like I personally was constantly fucking up, standing out, and embarrassing myself. I still have trouble looking in the mirror. And yes, I have had constant therapy for this, but it's just something I personally couldn't handle. This was also a huge surprise for me. Before I moved I didn't think it would be a problem for me, but it ended up being a major issue.
• Being married to a Dutch national. It took USCIS almost 3 years to process and issue my husband a greencard to repatriate even though he has had a greencard before and was in good standing. Part of the reason we are moving back is for him to get his US citizenship so we have more flexibility of where we can live and for how long. This is especially important as we both have aging parents and nieces and nephews on either side of the Atlantic.
• Potentially wanting children in the future. We are considering children and I would never, ever, EVER want my child in the Dutch education system.

All of this said, I will probably move back to the Netherlands once I am done building a life in the US. It is a much better place to be old than the US. Again, the point of this post was NOT to discourage anyone from moving. I am happy I moved and would do it again if I had the chance. I just wanted to share my reasons for repatting in the hope that it would educate people about a lot of the challenges I had.

42 F, born in London to Americans. Moved back to the US when I was 4. My parents always told me I was only a US citizen. I took them at their word. I just found out, at 42, that I am actually a UK citizen still. I can leave whenever the f I want. I'm applying for my UK passport and can start looking for jobs. I have some friends in the UK so I have a safety net if need be. I just have to figure out how to get my wife and dogs there. Finding a job will be tough, but I'm honestly willing to do any sort of work to get out of here. Life is wild.

That's all. My head is just spinning with the possibilities of this new revelation. Thanks for listening.

I am a naturalized US citizen, married to a US citizen, and have two little kids. We moved last summer to the country I am from as soon as I got a job offer there. I wanted to share our failed experience in moving abroad and hopefully help people in the sub.

Similar to a lot of people, my spouse and I wanted leave the country due to the political climate, specifically on how polarized the US has been and fear of how these will affect our two kids. We looked at various options and realized the most realistic place to move is to my home country in Asia. My spouse has some disability and works part time at a local non profit - really no chance in getting work visa. I have a pretty good job in the US and still have some network with people at my home country, which helped me get a job offer. My kids are dual citizens there and my SO can get a spousal permit to stay. The plan seemed good at first until we actually moved there. The kids are adjusting great, getting a lot of attention from my family but both my SO and I are experienced a lot of culture shock and home sickness. My SO doesn't speak the local language yet, could not get a job, could not get around without help from a local, hard to make connections with expats whom all there for work, my SO didn't quite fit in, got really depressed. We all (including our 6 months old baby) constantly got sick. Be it stomach bug, cold/ flu, cough in general. Pollution is pretty bad, not to mention traffic. I forgot how tough life was there. My job there was relatively senior but the pay is less than half my pay in the US, which was expected and calculated as part of plan. What I didn't quite realize was how much more stressful it was than my US jobs. My work life balance was gone. I remembered again how slow and corrupt the local gov there was and still is. I am also seeing the same trend of polarization in politics back home...the same thing we are trying to avoid. The only difference is obviously no gun violence. We both realized this is not working out for us. On the 4th month, we pulled the plug and plan our move back to the US. Thankfully my old job took me back
We burned our savings because of this mistake. We still want to move out of the US but we are playing the long game and trying to make multiple alternative plans happen first before actually moving.
In short, please be very thoughtful in your plan in moving. We are lucky that we could move and have the safety net to do so. But often moving is not the solution to whatever we are trying to runaway from.

The mayor of Copenhagen says he's open to anti-Trump Americans.

Still, Denmark presents some difficult hoops to jump through. But.... here it is!

https://cphpost.dk/2024-11-16/news/politics/mayor-in-copenhagen-wants-to-attract-trump-disappointed-americans/

I did my own AmerExit having a Spanish passport a few years ago and even then it was pretty difficult. I am a college educated individual and I speak Spanish but moving here and finding a job was tough.

What is up with all the Americans who think they can waltz into any European country with 0 skills and that they’ll get a job and a residence permit just like that?

I lurk around here thinking I could help out but the posts are all like: help I hate America they’re so nasty racist I don’t have a job and I never went to school and I’m hoping that I can come to some random EU country and live off govt assistance bc the EU is a utopia just dying to have more unskilled, unemployed immigrants who don’t speak the language to support.

Guys, the question of “what value do I add to this place” should be NUMBER ONE on your mind when it comes to trying to leave. If the answer is “virtually nothing, I’d actually be a burden to the citizens” then there you go!

Aside from the fact that no, Americans can’t just move anywhere they want anytime they want, many countries around the world are facing massive economic issues like the US. The EU specifically is dealing with hard core housing and job shortages plus record inflation.

And all of these yucky American politics you want to get away from? We have that here too! The far right gains power in every election, racism is up in every measurable way and guess what? There’s a lot less support for victims of racism here, if you tell an average Spaniard that you faced a “micro aggression” prepare to have them laugh in your face.

Healthcare is more affordable and our taxpayer funded* healthcare system is better than what exists in the US for the poorest of the poor there. I was living in absolute poverty in the US so for me public healthcare in Spain does feel like quite a treat but I promise if you’re used to even a decent level of health insurance in the states, you’re gonna be shocked by what the “wonderful amazing” public healthcare system in the EU is really like.

People don’t end up homeless as easily as you can in America that’s true, however I wouldn’t want to live in any of the social housing I’ve seen here, and I certainly wouldn’t want to live off government assistance. Coming here with those things in mind especially if you have a stable life in America is not a good idea.

I love Spain, I love being Spanish but there are issues here I think the average American couldn’t even imagine. Plus, you have to find a way to stay here legally and that in and of itself is difficult, time consuming, and expensive.

Moving is hard, moving abroad is really hard. Moving to another country where you can’t even tell the doctor what’s wrong and can’t drive yourself to doctors appointments bc you can’t legally drive here is even harder. There are a lot of people that struggle with their day-to-day lives in the United States and think that moving to the EU would solve all of these problems when it would actually make them 100 times worse.

I don’t want to discourage those that are really interested in coming here and contributing to the bigger picture. People who are looking to experience life, culture, and education in other countries, and have the means to do so, I think you’ll enjoy moving abroad. I know I have. Moving abroad is never a panacea solution for unhappiness at home.

And keep in mind that there is a lot of backlash in the EU right now and other parts of the world regarding wealthy foreigners who come and gobble up all of the affordable housing for locals who typically have salaries that are, far lower than what Americans earn.

I am very lucky to have the job I do, it took me years to find it. I make more than all the teachers, doctors, and engineers I know, and yet my salary is still so low I’m embarrassed to tell my American family and friends. Remember that there are almost always local citizens ready and able to do whatever job you’re applying for, and they’ll accept salaries that aren’t just a “little” lower, they’re usually 4-6 times lower than US salaries. Things in the PIGS countries are cheaper… for Americans! The moment you move here and work here, the idea of this being a cheap place to live really goes out the window.

I think a lot of Americans are suffering from chicken little syndrome, and I get it. The US is looking pretty scary right now. But I’m sorry to say that a lot of the rest of the world isn’t doing that much better. Just yesterday, the part of Spain I live in experienced one of the worst natural disasters of all time, and the death toll is so high because of the governments botched warning (or total lack of).

Also to dispel some common myths I see repeated a lot on Reddit:

1. The renunciation fee is $2,300

2. There is no exit tax unless your assets are over a million USD.

3. You are not barred from visiting the US, you just need a visa like everyone else.

4. Your foreign banks no longer have to report on you to the US. You no longer have to send a form everytime your bank balance goes over 10k.

5. Feels good to be free!

I wanted to follow up on the post that they guy who moved to Spain did...

I've lived and worked in 3 different countries in the last 12 years, so here's my 2 cents:

It seems like many people in this subreddit haven't done much or any research about living abroad. It's a huge commitment.

NEEDS:

1. You NEED to learn the local language to get things done, there are a few exceptions for where gov't authorities or businesses will talk to you in English, but it's not ever guaranteed*
   • *Even if you're in an English speaking country, all the immigration processes, laws, working rights and governmental authorities do things in different ways, it will not be exactly like the U.S.
2. You NEED to bring something marketable to your host country. This usually means at least a bachelor's degree in STEM with experience OR the equivalent of a journeyman tradesperson (electrician/HVAC/plumber etc). If you don't have these things and can't claim citizenship through descent (most people can't) you will not get working rights or be able to work.
3. You NEED money. There are some exceptions, but if you just show up in a country, and you can get a job seeker visa, in the EU you usually need to prove about 1000 euro for every month your job seeker visa is valid. i.e. you need 12k euro/year in cash to even look for a job.
   • There is a way around this with a company transfer to Europe/Oceania, but you need the company to sponsor your visa and most companies don't like doing this.
   • The other way is on the 3 month tourist visa you can get for the EU, but good luck finding a job in 3 months without an address, knowledge of local laws, knowledge of the local language, or any professional networks

TRUTHS:

1. Wages are generally lower in Europe. in Switzerland, Luxembourg, Germany, Netherlands and France you have a chance to earn between about 70%-120% of an average U.S. salary (after taxes). Anywhere else in Europe, the salaries with be about 50-60% of what you'd earn in the U.S. for a comparable job with a comparable level of education and experience.
2. Taxes are much higher in Europe than the U.S. In Luxembourg and Switzerland taxes are comparable to the u.s. in all other EU countries, expect to see 32-42% of your gross salary taken for taxes and social contributions (health insurance, retirement, unemployment, child care etc.). If you make 5k/month in Germany, your net salary will be about 3k.
3. Housing and Jobs are hard to find right now, especially if you can't talk to the landlord/employers in the local language. If you do find something, prices can be bad BUT it depends on the country and their renter's protection laws i.e. price caps on rent.
4. Consumer prices are generally much lower than the U.S. and laws regarding food safety and additives are MUCH better than the U.S.
5. Healthcare depends on the country. Switzerland, Luxembourg, Germany, Netherlands and France have pretty good systems. The Nordic countries are supposed to also, but I haven't personally experienced anything there involving healthcare. Southern europe...is not great, they're fine with basic things, but I would never want to have surgery in one of those countries.
6. Anywhere you can earn a 'high' salary in Europe also has pretty bad weather. It's probably fine for most people from a blue state (excl. California) but not seeing the sun for 3 months in the winter, while also being constantly rained on, can make anybody depressed.
   1. None of your documents will be valid. You need a new license, ID card, health insurance card, residency permit (card), bank/credit card (+bank account). This process is time consuming, frustrating, and WILL NOT be like doing it in the u.s.
7. Politics are becoming increasingly conservative. IT, NL, HU, SK have very conservative governments. Most of the economic powerhouse EU countries are getting more conservative, but still very liberal by U.S. standards.

Most Importantly

1. The social welfare net that everyone loves so much is something you won't be able to take advantage of for awhile. Sure, you can lose your job a theoretically collect unemployment, but if you lose your job, you lose your visa if you don't find a job within a month. You really can't take advantage of all the benefit schemes you pay into until you become a permanent resident or citizen within 3-5 years. If you DO manage to collect some benefits, it usually affects your future citizenship application.
2. Even if you're a citizen through descent, you can still be barred from collecting benefits if you've never paid into the system. This is country dependent, but they can make it HARD to collect benefits if they see that's all you're after and you've never lived in or contributed to the economy. If you can't speak the local language and have never paid in, there's a close to 0 chance that you can get any benefits.

From the Bay-Area in California to the South of Germany and Poland.

It’s not easy to make it abroad, but thankfully I was surrounded by good people and had a great situation with my company (Healthcare public relations) that has locations globally.

I miss California and my Foxbody Mustang but it feels good to walk outside knowing I’m safe.

I'm a New York Times reporter working on a story about Americans who have left or are planning to leave the US because of the country's politics. Are you making concrete plans to leave the US if the candidate you support loses the 2024 election? Or are you already living abroad partly because of the politics back home? I'd love to hear stories from people of all different political leanings who have taken steps to be able to live outside the US (or are already doing it.) My DMs are open. -Ronda Kaysen

For the record, I want to be told I’m being dramatic. But, project 2025 is pretty scary, and if you read it it really seems like they’re going to pull it off. Hell, I’m worried they’ve already long since started.

I’ve been thinking about emmigrating (and “planning” for that possibility) for awhile now, but I think I always thought I’d never really have to. it’s really starting to feel like it’s coming to that though.

I don’t want to be caught off guard or wait until it’s too late. I’m still young, and I’m a skilled worker and I believe I will qualify for express immigration to canada, though I’m aware anti-immigrant sentiment is on the rise there (and everywhere) and am aware there are more challenges than I’m probably prepared for.

I am aware canada isn’t exactly doing well on the LGBT front either, and that living in the US in a major city right now might be the absolute best I can get in terms of LGBT acceptance. I just feel as though an openly anti-lgbt government with… well… an actual dictator would be bad news bears for me much more than just rough sentiment in rural areas.

Im willing to accept a substantial pay cut for safety and staying out of the closet.

Do you think the fact that I work for a canadian company’s US branch will help me get my foot in the door? My boss is a Canadian immigrant to the US, does that at all assist if I can rely on him as a reference to canadian jobs?

Is it time to start making plans for the worst case scenario? How long, realistically, do you think we have? If I live in a major US city that’s blue, do you think my chances of being safe even if I stay long term are good?

Or, alternatively, do you think the idea of fleeing is absurd? I would love to hear why I needn’t be worried, and am open to being talked out of this.

Thanks folks! Im sure you’re tired of people talking about Trump, and may even find the idea of “fleeing america” laughable, but I hope you can help me regardless, even if you just to convince me to chill out.

I've noticed a trend of immigrants who move to the US and are disappointed, one of their complaints is about how ugly and samey the US is. This causes a lot of consternation from Americans who go on about how beautiful our natural parks are.

Here's the thing, they're not talking about the natural environment (which is beautiful, but not unique to the US, beautiful natural environments exist all over the world). They're talking about the built environment, where people spend 99% of their time.

The problem is: America builds its cities around cars and not people. I can't express to you how ugly all the stroads, massive parking lots, and strip malls are to people who grew up in walkable communities.

My wife and I emigrated from America to New Zealand back in 2009, became permanent residents, then later on NZ citizens. Best decision we every made. Since then, we have lived in both NZ and Australia (NZ citizens have the right to work in Australia, so you can move between the 2 countries like you do between US states).

My wife is a nurse and is registered in both NZ and Australia.

Given current events, I am guessing the interest in both countries from people looking to leave America will explode in the near future. If anyone has any questions that we can assist with, just ask - either on this thread or thru private messaging.

My family and I emigrated from the United States to the Netherlands two months ago and so far, things are going pretty well. We're still looking for local doctors who have room for new patients, which was something we knew would probably be hard; and our shipment of stuff from the United States is going the long way around and appears to be delayed off China and therefore running two months late. Other than that, everything has been pretty much all right. We're comfortable, we have our residency permits, our cats arrived safely (even the 19-year-old), and we have a pair of swans who live in the canal behind our back deck, and before they flew south for the winter they would come honking up fairly regularly in search of food. They were a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to their return in the spring, and hoping that they'll have cygnets.

If anybody wants to know anything about our experience, feel free to ask either here or privately. A couple of people asked me to post an update once we had arrived and settled in, so this is at least the first update. If anyone is interested, I might do another one in six months or so, when we're a bit more established.

It's been hard, yes -- as I was warned, it's harder than I expected even when I tried to take into account that it was going to be harder than I expected. But it's also been joyful. We've been really happy here; we're exploring, we're getting used to local foods, and my Dutch gets a little better with every Marketplatz ad I read without a translator.

Best of luck to anyone else who is trying to move. Let me know if I can tell you anything useful.

Just wanted to share my personal story.

I grew up in Toronto, Canada to your standard suburban middle class family. My parents were immigrants to Canada, having me at 22 and buying a starter home at 27 in the suburbs of Toronto on mostly 1 income while having an immigrant education / start in life.

I got an engineering degree and founded my own startup during the pandemic. The housing bubble in my city reached truly legendary proportions (13x median house price: median income) while the healthcare system has basically collapsed (my dad spent 24hrs+ in ER and then got admitted to a hospital bed in the hallway for a few days, I can't get any specialist without a 6 month wait). My fiance got a job in NYC so we made the decision to move to US.

My perspective on the US was basically in line with most of the American propaganda. Land of opportunity. In reality, gosh... I don't even know where to start.

1. The food is straight up trying to kill you. Salt in everything, so much unhealthy ingredients. Also most the multicultural food is so whitewashed I don't even want to eat it. My fiance got served peking duck on a tortilla at an expensive restaurant in NYC the other day. It's no wonder Americans have a life expectancy of 77 years old.
2. The taxes are high. But somehow you don't get anything for your tax money. My fiance pays a 48% marginal tax rate but has to live in a city with high crime (NYC; contrary to American cope, crime rates like NYC are not normal for a developed country). Schools are shit (look at American reading/writing scores). Healthcare is paid by employers. At least I can get an appointment, credit where credit is due. It's the same taxes as Canada but you get nothing in return.
3. The individualistic culture. There's just so much individualism, particularly with stories on how people treat their own families. I don't want to generalize but the people who are part of that culture are pretty gross to me. Not to mention the insane vanity endemic to NYC.
4. Housing is only marginally affordable. NYC housing is not affordable, neither are most of the places with jobs. My job is remote so I guess I could buy a house in Dallas, credit where credit is due.
5. The crime. I don't know how Americans tolerate such comical crime rates -- particularly the crime that can target anyone like drunk driving or armed robberies.
6. The immigration process basically just treats you like an unwanted person. It feels like America's optimal immigrant is an illegal unskilled labor destined to be a 2nd class citizen rather than skilled labor migration that has the audacity to consider themselves equal to Americans.

I visited Saudi Arabia & Malaysia & Australia for work over the past year and honestly just reached my breaking point. I straight up enjoyed Riyadh, Saudi Arabia more than NYC. Never would I have thought I could say that in my entire life. Malaysia & Australia were superior as well but those are known destinations. Australia has a housing bubble, Malaysia is a little lacking on infra but both still superior to living in the US.

Anyway, living in America honestly broke my heart a little. I imagined US as this unique magical place when in reality it's basically just a place where you can make a lot of money before the government & corporations & landlords milk you for every penny. The system is rigged in favor of someone, I'm just not sure who but I know its not me.

I too share everyone’s concerns regarding the current election but if trump wins his effect would be less seen in a liberal state. So why not just move to one of those instead of out of the country. The USA is a massive country with vastly different vibes and politics around so is there no safe space here?

I’m essentially thinking out loud here. I actually applied for PR in Canada the last time trump was president so trust there’s no judgement on my part. Really just seeing what information yall have for me that I don’t know in this post.

Hi I accidentally stumbled upon this sub and I am kind of confused. I am a Mexican, it’s been my dream to move to the US for all its job opportunities and career paths that I would never find in Mexico. It seems that there are a lot of you who want to leave and that is kind of discouraging for me. Is America really that bad of a place? I also have seen a post about a guy who wants to move to South Africa? I am really quite confused, could anyone care to explain? 🙏

(I am an American living in the Netherlands for context)

To everybody considering moving to a place where English is not the native local language: you must learn the local language! I know this seems obvious, but I feel some people really need a reminder. Remember that you are considering LIVING abroad, not just vacationing. Learning another language is difficult and requires investment, and I think a number of people here are a little intentionally blind to it as they think about how their life will be better somewhere else. But I promise you that you're going to have a bad time if you don't invest the time and effort to learn.

Your ten minutes of Duolingo every day isn't going to sufficiently prepare you when it comes time to visit a doctor about something important, it won't teach you all the terminology needed to understand how to compare health or car insurance plans, and it's definitely not going to teach you about cultural references like popular TV shows or movies from the past. It won't teach you about all the local foods and how they're consumed, like how "filet americain" here is a raw beef tartaar usually eaten on bread.

Do not think that Google Translate is going to save you either. Not only is the voice recognition still borderline broken, the translations are sometimes completely wrong. The Dutch word for "heavy cream" is "slagroom" but Google Translate will give you "zware room" (literally 'heavy cream' in the sense that it's especially dense and weighs a lot) or it will just give you 'heavy cream'.

Do you really want to rely on a phone app to communicate with your doctor if you've been rushed to an emergency doctor? How well do you think it's voice recognition is going to work when the utility company calls you to tell you about a planned electrical outage for some construction or repair work? Do you actually trust it well enough to translate legal documents regarding your residency visa?

You may be thinking "well everybody in the Netherlands (or your chosen nation) speaks excellent English anyway, there's no point" ... no. The majority of people may speak English, but not all. Here the chances decrease rapidly when dealing with people over 50 years old or so, and it's less likely as you leave the more densely populated areas of the country. If you live in a city that doesn't have a constant stream of English speaking tourists you may well be expecting somebody to talk to you in a language they learned in school 20+ years ago and only rarely use today.

And my last point.. honestly, it's just polite. The very least you can do is make an effort to try. I've met American and British people that have lived in Amsterdam for years and literally made no effort at all to learn Dutch; it genuinely feels rude to me to move somewhere and expect the natives to cater to you, who put no effort into integrating. I've met one guy that, after living here for three years, didn't understand that 'korting' means 'discount' -- and that word is fucking EVERYWHERE in Dutch stores. It would be like living in the US and not learning what 'sale' means.

That's my biggest advice for anybody considering moving outside of the US. If the place where you're going doesn't speak English natively then you need to learn the local language. It's important legally and medically, it's polite, it will help you fit in better with your neighbors, and it will make daily tasks like grocery shopping easier.

So get out and start learning!

https://fortune.com/europe/2024/11/08/american-searches-for-how-to-move-to-england-increase-10-fold-in-wake-of-us-election/

American’s are eligible to move to the U.K. with the governments tier 2 (skilled) worker visa, before applying to move permanently after 5 years.

I see people say you have to give up your salary to move here, but it’s because we have better universal healthcare, education, (less) of a need for a car, etc. Honestly you aren’t really giving up anything in terms of quality of life living here and both countries are similar in terms of society. Plus even our far right aren’t trying to remove rights left right and centre (pun not intended).

And if you can get a job and a place in London, you’ll be in one of the highest paying, modern city in the world. And if London is too much, places like Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow etc are cheaper alternatives which are still very nice

I’ve been meaning to write one of these up for a while now to share the good, the bad and the ugly of moving abroad since this sub and r/expats were so helpful when we were researching and planning to move. 

Me, my wife and 4 year old moved from Seattle to Oslo in December last year after roughly 5 years of on and off planning, research and work to make our move happen.

After one year, we are very happy with our decision to move and haven’t regretted it once. That said, the 6 month period before, during and after our move were extremely hard on all of us. It felt like the to do list was never ending and we were always tired from learning new things every day about how to live in a new country. It would have been even harder if we didn’t have relocation assistance through our new jobs.

National politics wasn’t a top reason for us to move, we wanted to find a place where we could live car free but still be close to nature and more importantly be able to give our kid a lot more freedom and independence than is possible in the US. 

We were able to move because we have 10-15 years experience each in the tech sector, so we are on a skilled worker permit and family immigration permits, that we will hopefully be able to transition to permanent residency in 2 more years.

There are jobs available in Norway in tech for people who only speak English. Look on Linkedin or Finn.no for jobs posted in English. You should NOT try to come to Norway unless you plan to put in the effort to learn the language, even in Oslo it is really hard to build a community without norwegian language skills. 

11 months in, our 4 year old is fluent in Norwegian and overall had a good transition into daycare/preschool here, which costs roughly $200 per month. The kids there play outside nearly every day and once a week go on field trips, either walking or taking public transit to go around the city or to the forest outside the city. Next year he will have cross country ski lessons through daycare.

Daycare and preschool is not focused on academic skills, our kid has definitely lost skills in that regard. Academics in Norway don’t really ramp up until after elementary school. He plays, makes friends and explores the outdoors and learns to be independent and we’re really happy with him getting more time to be a kid. Kids often walk to school alone or with groups of friends starting at 6 or 7. 

We feel far safer walking or biking than we did in Seattle, our commute is a 10 minute walk (at 4 year old walking speed) or 5 minute bike ride to drop our kid off at daycare then another 20 minutes each to get to work either biking or by subway. Getting around the city every day, even when I’m walking in the snow and ice brings be so much joy and also a surprising amount of weight loss.

The work life balance is incredible here. The healthcare system is basically free (because it’s funded through taxes) and works well from our experience. 

Honestly the weather is better than Seattle except for brutal tree allergies that are in Oslo in the spring. If you can handle the big dark of winter in the PNW, you can handle Oslo.

Life here is not perfect though. There is no perfect place in my opinion, only places where you can accept the trade offs for. 

It is really hard to make friends here, which is a thing about life in the nordics. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible though. After 11 months we have a solid friend network of about a dozen people, it takes a lot more work here to make friends than other places though.  

Learning the language is very challenging to do while working with a kid. But my wife and I are making solid progress by taking turns taking night classes. After 11 months, my wife is almost at business/working level. I’m at an elementary level, close to what is required for permanent residency. 

The casual racism in Norway is disconcerting coming from Seattle, even though I knew it was a thing before I moved. It hasn’t affected me directly because I’m white and have a nordic ancestry last name, but I regularly hear negative comments about immigrants or refugees who are nonwhite, or not western (generally meaning muslim, or Indian). Then I am told that these comments are not about me because I am a “good” immigrant who fits in. I wanted to mention it, because if you aren’t white, it’s going to be harder for you here and you should know about this. 

Also, like most of Europe, Norway isn’t free of right wing politics either. The FRP, the most rightwing party in the country is growing right now. 

Anyhow, I’m happy to answer questions about Norway and our experience.

We may have escaped the burning building but there are people we care about still trapped inside. Not only that but the flames can spread to where we ended up.

The US government sends a ballot for free to any American anywhere in the world. Those of us that left are registered to vote in the last place we lived in America (Florida for me). I sent my ballot for Kamala Harris last week and it only cost me the international postage to mail it back. Now it’s your turn.

I’ve seen scary Trump inspired movements here in Canada so the disease needs to be stopped at its source. I was talking to another American that left today and he told me that only 5% of the one million Americans in Canada vote. This needs to change.

When people correctly point out that salaries in the US are higher for plenty of careers than in the EU, no one bats an eye on why people with high-paying careers would want to move to the US.

But when I correctly point out that traffic safety, especially for cyclists and pedestrians, is far worse in the US than most EU countries, people lose their fucking minds and get incredibly defensive and pretend the US doesn't have horrible issues with infrastructure and culture with respect to people outside of cars.