r/facepalm Aug 19 '24

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ But he is a convicted felon 🤷‍♂️

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u/Rare_Brief4555 Aug 19 '24

Ohh you bet. Can send a suit against whoever you like, winning is a whole other story.

And if you think a lawyer wouldn't be petty with their free time... Well think again lol

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u/SobakaZony Aug 19 '24

I am not a Lawyer, so i do not know, but to prove defamation, don't you have to prove

  1. not only that the alleged defamatory statement is not true,
  2. but also that the alleged defamer intended the statement to harm the Plaintiff?

If so, how could anyone possibly prove that Donald Trump is not a 34-time convicted felon, when it is a matter of public record?

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u/Adept_Score2332 Aug 19 '24

I do believe that the defamation cases also need to show harm done to the plaintiff 

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u/PopperChopper Aug 19 '24

There is also a pretty high bar for public figures since they are topics of discussion amongst the public already.

The bar is not as high for average citizens

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u/Kopitar4president Aug 20 '24

IIRC for average citizens you knew or should have known the statements were false.

For public figures it's actual knowledge or reckless disregard for the truth and that is a high bar.

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u/TheWanderingGM Aug 20 '24

Trump might then be immune based on his regular disregard for reality. Can't claim that moron has any actual knowledge, except for the kind epstein was tight lipped about ofc

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u/dbx99 Aug 20 '24

This is where the democratic process is supposed to work by having the people not elect such trash into high office in our government and hand him the nuclear button

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u/daschande Aug 19 '24

Defense exhibit A: the plethora of "I'm voting for the felon" trump merch.

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u/aint_exactly_plan_a Aug 19 '24

Let it be known that by calling Trump a 34-time convicted felon, I intend to do him harm, and God willing, will be able to prove the harm done after the election.

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u/woahdailo Aug 20 '24

Yup but it’s a true statement so you are all clear!

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u/yoshinoyaandroll Aug 19 '24

For MAGA supporters, being 34 times convicted is a positive thing. They wear merch and scream that they would still vote for the convict. It helped him become even more popular as a criminal.

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u/jrs1980 Aug 19 '24

Right, I hope Mike plans to sue all the magats who own "I'm voting for the convicted felon" t-shirts too.

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u/hwc000000 Aug 20 '24

Why do people still insist on thinking the right cares about consistency, or principles, or morals, or ethics, or ...? All they have ever cared about is winning, by hook or by crook.

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u/Rolandscythe Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 20 '24

Yet you notice Mike here isn't threatening to sue any of those MAGA cultists walking around with the 'I'm voting for the convicted felon' shirts and signs, is he? Strange...

I feel that would come back to bite them in the ass if they tried to actually pursue a lawsuit against anyone. Last I checked if you claim a word or phrase is defamatory you're not allowed to put a little asterisk on the end that says 'but only when these people use it'

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u/Setanta1968 Aug 20 '24

Are you sure you didn't mean MAGA cuntists?

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u/pudgey933 Aug 20 '24

Which is so twisted that this is what “the party of law and order” has come to. If he were black or brown, they’d be chanting for a 34 time felon to get life or worse.

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u/hwc000000 Aug 20 '24

this is what “the party of law and order” has come to

Are you sure about the last part? Haven't they always been like this, but hidden it better?

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u/khismyass Aug 20 '24

Voting for the convict, against the former District Attorney then go back to their car with the obligatory "back the blue" sticker on it.

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u/Giggles95036 Aug 20 '24

Hey, there is finally a republican with some convictions! 😂🤠

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u/SuitableStudy3316 Aug 20 '24

If Donald Trumps name were Juan Rodriguez do you think they’d worship him lol? Tells you everything you need to know about Republicans.

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u/CuthbertJTwillie Aug 20 '24

34 is a sacred number in Chicago.

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u/SnooCheesecakes4577 Aug 20 '24

I had to search this but only came up with Ward 34 and the alderman elected.

What is the significance of 34?

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u/CuthbertJTwillie Aug 20 '24

Walter Payton

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u/SnooCheesecakes4577 Aug 22 '24

Ahhh, yes. The legend himself. Thanks!

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u/im_just_thinking Aug 20 '24

More like infamation suit

1

u/6MadChillMojo9 Aug 20 '24

These are the same folks who look at Billy the Kid, Jess James, and John Wesley Hardin as "heroes" so are you really that surprised?

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u/KiwiObserver Aug 20 '24

Need to show harm was done by those “non true” statements. But “convicted felon” is a true statement.

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u/Biscotti_BT Aug 20 '24

Donald is gonna sue the MAGA crowd when he loses. Anyone who has an "I'm voting for the felon" shirt. It's how he plans on not going bankrupt

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u/codemonkeyhopeful Aug 20 '24

Literally if I was in court accused of causing his reputation to slide I'd just point at him and ask "so what about that asshole who's done by far the most harm to the name trump?"

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u/Romanfiend Aug 19 '24

Truth is an absolute defense to defamation. That Trump is a convicted felon is a fact.

Is Davis even a lawyer?

Edit: apparently he is, so he knows he is full of it.

https://fedsoc.org/contributors/mike-r-davis

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u/TheBirminghamBear Aug 19 '24

And if I'm not mistaking, isn't Trump fundraising / selling merch off of his felon status?

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u/rglogowski Aug 19 '24

So I wonder if his statement constitutes (bad) legal advice?

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u/BrevitysLazyCousin Aug 19 '24

I assumed he deleted this shit. Nope, he's doubled down. He's claiming that until the judge finds him guilty and sentences him (which is weeks away), he isn't a convicted felon.

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u/JimB8353 Aug 20 '24

That’s not correct. The jury found him guilty. The judge doesn’t make any such finding or declaration. Guess Davis was absent from that class in law school.

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u/Missue-35 Aug 20 '24

But, he can still vote until he’s sentenced?

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u/Environmental-Bag-77 Aug 19 '24

Which is obviously true, provided he is currently at that point in his proceedings.

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u/evilarhan Aug 20 '24 edited Aug 21 '24

No. Once a jury renders a guilty verdict, you have been convicted. Since the charges were felony charges in this case, and the jury found defendant Trump guilty on 34 felony counts, he is 34 times a convicted felon.

Anyone foolish enough to file a defamation suit will be laughed out of court.

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u/evilarhan Aug 20 '24

He's hiding behind a not-really-technicality; his argument is probably that, since Trump has been found guilty by a jury of his peers, but not been sentenced yet by the judge, he has not been convicted yet.

However, the rendering of a guilty verdict by a judge or jury is, by definition, conviction of a crime, as is the acceptance (but not the mere submission) of a guilty plea.

It's scare tactics BS, and he knows it. He just thinks he can get away with it.

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u/JimB8353 Aug 20 '24

And he wants to be the Attorney General.

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u/Sinister_Plots Save Me Jebus! Aug 19 '24

That's definitely the point here. It's a tactic pulled right out of the DJT book on business. Intimidate, ridicule and mock and when they retaliate you sue them. That's the Trump way.

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u/Rare_Brief4555 Aug 19 '24

And he doesn't have to care too much about winning compared to the average plaintiff

It's just to tangle the important people on the team up in red tape

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u/MildlyMixedUpOedipus Aug 19 '24

If so, how could anyone possibly prove that

That's the fun part. They can't.

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u/other_usernames_gone Aug 19 '24

Not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure you also need to show that the alleged defamer knew the statement wasn't true, or was negligent in checking the facts.

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u/Blurby-Blurbyblurb Aug 19 '24

Point one is accurate. It's why media will say "allegedly" because it hasn't been proved in court. Without "alleged/allegedly" it could open media to a lawsuit. However! Once the allegation has been proven to be true in a court of law, it is no longer defamation.

The reverse happened with E. Jean Carroll. He had been found guilty in that case and then went on about how she's a liar. It wasn't true. He didn't know her and felt bad for her husband. He was found guilty of defamation because he had been found guilty of the assualt and defamation because he went around smearing her name and reputation after she spoke out about her experience.

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u/Zestyclose-Poet3467 Aug 19 '24

I’m not a lawyer either, but my few law classes as a media major gave me this much:

1) The publisher of the statement, image, video, or media, knowingly published a falsehood. - Failed the test for defamation, statement not false. 2) The publisher made the statement, et.al, publicly. - If the statement was false then this test would have been satisfied. 3) The individual is identified. - This happened. 4) The publisher intended actual malice. - This test requires knowing you’re saying something untrue with the intention of doing harm by misleading others. Even if you intend it to be damaging to his election campaign, it is not intentionally misleading to report the truth that the guy is a convicted felon.

Failure of the most important portions of the test makes me comfortable stating that Donald J. Trump is a 34x convicted felon.

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u/lgodsey Aug 19 '24

You are not the audience for this tweet. No one reading this is the audience for the tweet. The author of that nonsense is just trying to rile up the ignorant and hate-fueled conservative MAGA base who are literally unable to defend against lies from their leaders. They lack critical thinking skills and the courage or integrity to question the onslaught of brazen lies, so conservative leaders and pundits and attention-seekers know they can say literally any salacious absurdity and they will only receive cheer and applause.

We will have to save the conservative base from themselves, despite themselves.

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u/Rubeus17 Aug 19 '24

mike davis is an idiot.

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u/Odd-Valuable1370 Aug 19 '24

AND that the plaintiff KNEW it was untrue

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u/No_Banana_581 Aug 19 '24

Some guy on here told me he was contacting the fbi on me bc I called trump an Epstein child rapist, and I’ll be sued for defamation lol

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u/Lazorus_ Aug 19 '24

And he’s a public figure, so the level needed to prove defamation is even higher

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u/morbid333 Aug 20 '24

I think you also have to prove financial damages

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u/Gloomy-Ambassador-54 Aug 20 '24

I am also not a lawyer, but I was a reporter who covered politics for a while (ironically, I almost covered Trump himself). I had to consult with our press freedom attorneys a few times, too, as people inevitably threaten lawsuits for u flattering coverage.

Defamation, slander, and libel cases really depend on who is harmed. Private citizens have more protections than public officials and candidates for office. The latter group used to have virtually no protections even to the point of SCOTUS protecting outright and known lies, but this judicial environment has been reversing that trend to protect public officials more and more and penalize private citizens even for speech against public officials. Here’s one good example: ACLU and New Hampshire case.

Ironically, the president and members of Congress are immune to defamation cases because of their jobs.

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u/Magnet50 Aug 20 '24

The whole basis of his argument, besides being a troll with a law degree, is that Trump hasn’t been sentenced yet.

But the whole world heard the jury say “Guilty” to all 34 counts. The judge can’t say “Yeah, I don’t agree. You are free to go…”

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u/EunuchsProgramer Aug 20 '24

Typically, truth is a defense. The plaintiff doesn't need to prove it, but if the defendant does, it's game over.

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u/tsengmao Aug 20 '24

Not just that it’s untrue, but I’d have to KNOW it to be untrue. If I can show that I believed it to be true, well that’s kinda it. Especially when a public figure is involved

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u/LunaTheMoon2 Aug 20 '24

Mhm, and public figures have a higher standard of evidence since you not only have to show that the statement is not true, but that the person making the statement acted with either reckless disregard for the truth, or just knew that they were lying. Trump is a convicted felon.

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u/In-Justice-4-all Aug 20 '24

I am a lawyer. Truth is a defense to defamation.

Also, without getting into the weeds about it, Trump is a public figure and a politician at that. It's nearly impossible to defame someone in that position.

Also.... I'm always stunned when they attempt to make honesty or something related like defamation sn issue. Do they not see their vulnerability there?

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u/AdolfSmeargle Aug 20 '24

I can’t believe Trump broke 34 laws search up Donald Trump rule 34 to learn more

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u/shoulda-known-better Aug 20 '24

And third that the person knowingly spread information that was false

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u/nooneknowswerealldog Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
  1. but also that the alleged defamer intended the statement to harm the Plaintiff?

Also not a lawyer, but I believe that's not entirely true: the defamer doesn't need to actually intend harm but to know that the statements could or are likely to cause harm and make them anyway: something like the verbal/written form of reckless endangerment.

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u/Spencer8857 Aug 19 '24

Furthermore, you could argue that there is a record of negative publicity that has propelled Trump in his political career. It's like the very rare case where multiple negatives culminate into a net positive. Basically, you're arguing that by attempting defamation, you're really promoting to his base. Which is a hilarious situation and argument.

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u/thatblondbitch Aug 19 '24

So, I might be wrong here. But I think they are HEAVILY relying on the word "convicted" - although he IS a convicted felon in the state of NY. The rest of those are still in the indictment phase.

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u/capital_bj Aug 19 '24

he's not convicted on all of those yet but he does have a felony conviction (s) I can't keep up

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u/Tady1131 Aug 19 '24

Make shit up, sling shit at wall, something eventually sticks. Trumps game plan with most stuff.

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u/Vaswh Aug 20 '24

Different states have different elements and different defenses.

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u/TonAMGT4 Aug 20 '24

I think in some cases even if the statement is true, it could still potentially be seen as defamatory if the statement is not related to the current situation and the sole reason is to discredit the plaintiff.

For example, if somebody dig up police records from 50 years ago to discredit a person for whatever reason… it still could potentially be defamatory even if the police record is true.

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u/Snellyman Aug 20 '24

But because trump was president he has superpowers of thin skin that allows him to even sue animals that mock him.

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u/CON5CRYPT Aug 20 '24

Not a lawyer but I watched the Depp v Turd trial so I'm basically an expert. I think the deformation needs to have been published as well?

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u/laplongejr Aug 20 '24

but to prove defamation

You don't need to PROVE anything to sue. It's only to win the case.

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u/no-mad Aug 20 '24

It is meant for MAGA supporters not anyone stating trump is convicted felon. Need to keep a stiff upper limp.

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u/Omen_Morningstar Aug 20 '24

Thing is its not about winning the case. Its about bleeding who they go after. That person spends all their time and money in court dealing with lawyers

In the meantime they go broke, lose their job or business, their home....fucks up their whole life

And even if they win Trump will never pay them. Thars even more court drama

Theres literally thousands of lawsuits against Trump just like this. Where he stiffed people out of payments. Theyll never get justice

0

u/AdExpert8295 Aug 19 '24

not an attorney, but I have sued for defamation and what attorneys tell me is that it's a little more expansive. in additionto your reasons, there's another. it can also be true, but malicious. for example, maybe you know something about my past and no one else does. you then post it online for everyone I work with to see for no reason that contributes to the well-being of society (malicious)

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u/usafcctjce Aug 20 '24

Hasn’t been sentenced yet. Not real hard to follow.

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u/FknDesmadreALV Aug 19 '24

I wish a mf would help the less fortunate in their free time, not waste it being petty omg.

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u/chrisberman410 Aug 19 '24

I'd be ok with a 70/30 split

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u/Rare_Brief4555 Aug 19 '24

I hear you. People are the worst usually lol but as with any profession there are some great ones out there who are committed to working for the public good. Just gotta find them that's the problem. They have no free time to find you with

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u/Boygunasurf Aug 20 '24

The best part are the sanctions those attorneys will get hit with due to the frivolous nature of their suits.

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u/Easy-Concentrate2636 Aug 19 '24

I say the more lawsuits the better. The GOP is spending money on Trump’s petty lawsuits instead of the campaign. I noticed that a surprising number of GOP senate nominees are millionaires- probably funding themselves since Trump won’t share the RNC funds.

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u/Locutus-1 Aug 20 '24

We all have the right to be an attorney

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u/Rare_Brief4555 Aug 20 '24

We don't all have the right to practice law for money though...

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u/Locutus-1 Aug 20 '24

I was just referring to the Channing Tatum quote from 21 jump street

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u/Rare_Brief4555 Aug 20 '24

Oh sorry bro

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u/Locutus-1 Aug 20 '24

It's an ok movie and an ok joke, but it lives in my head

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u/Ok-Database-2447 Aug 19 '24

Attorney Generals cannot just charge whomever they want. Criminal charges are much more restricted than civil suits by random people. This is a troll post or a Russian disinformation bot.