r/facepalm • u/Innej5 • Jul 11 '24
đ˛âđŽâđ¸âđ¨â Mom needs to go back to school.
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u/CasualObserverNine Jul 11 '24
So you went to war so your state could set their own speed limits?
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u/Keith_Kong Jul 11 '24
People really donât give Texas the freedom credits they deserve. You may not be able to smoke weed, be an immigrant, or control what you do with your own body⌠but damned if those roads donât give you the freedom of speed. Pretty sure I was on a 90mph freeway at one point driving through that cowboy theme park.
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u/gwarfums Jul 11 '24
Am Texan. Texans like to shout "Come and take it!" And wave around the fun little snake flag; both of those things mean "Tread on me, daddy. lemme taste them boots". But we do have pretty good roads; we kind of have to when it's so far between notable points of interest. I-10 let's you go real fast, and is pretty straight!
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u/Ditto_D Jul 12 '24
God help you if you get off the highway and get onto the FM roads
55 miles per hour and Full of potholes you have to actively dodge so you dont shred your tires
2 miles later 75 miles per hour on dark narrow 2 lane FM roads smooth as silk
few more miles the speed limit drops to 6 miles an hour with Humphry chilling out over the 1 hill in town and his wife hasn't had sexual relations with him the past 8 months because he doesn't get what what a safeword is and his mother in law is in town so he is a bit on edge and asks to search your car with absolutely no reason and will tell you to wait for a canine for 20 minutes if you don't agree to have your car searched.
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u/gwarfums Jul 12 '24
The local county pd used to harass teenagers on their way from highschool; pull them over for minor infractions and berate them, accusing them of drinking. Happened to a friend of mine; had him in tears and even took his phone when he tried to call his parents. I'm not saying all cops are bad, but I'm not sure how to tell which ones are good when they all wear the same uniform.
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u/SaltEfan Jul 12 '24
Russian Roulette is safe 5/6 times. Itâs only one bad chamber after allâŚ
Most people would treat it as if every chamber was loaded and stay away. Chances of hitting a bad cop might be quite low in comparison, but the principle remains when theyâre able to ruin your day just as badly.
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u/JerseyGuy-77 Jul 12 '24
If the good ones don't stop the bad ones (their job).....
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u/BeefRunnerAd Jul 12 '24
unfortunately you don't get to keep being a good cop if you try to stop the bad ones
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u/caitlinculp Jul 12 '24
Iâll be damned if this isnât the most accurate description of rural Texas roads Iâve ever read. Bravo.
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u/H4mb01 Jul 12 '24
I'm german and must say that you don't even know what freedom of speed means
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u/Magister_Hego_Damask Jul 11 '24
Hey Mississippi? Why did you seccede?
"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth..."
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Jul 11 '24
Hey, South Carolina! Why did you secede?
Because of âan increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding states to the institution of slavery.â
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u/IHeartBadCode Jul 11 '24
Hey, Texas! Why did you secede?
WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression
Hey, Virginia! Why did you secede?
the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States
Hey, Alabama! Why did you secede?
And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States
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u/Coal_Morgan Jul 11 '24
oppression of....slave-holding...
Is some of the most fucked up combination of words you can possibly wrap together into a sentence and be absolutely sincere about.
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u/DataIllusion Jul 11 '24
They didnât see it as contradictory because they didnât see slaves as people.
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u/Wessssss21 Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
Ehh about 3/5's a person they might say.
Edit: I'm fully aware of how the 3/5's compromise worked legally... I am making a joke
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u/wtfnouniquename Jul 12 '24
I knew someone who tried to argue that the south wanted slaves to count as a whole person! Yea, Josh, they wanted to up their population numbers so they could control more of the government. They didn't want to actually give them any fucking rights, you idiot.
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u/SpaceCptWinters Jul 12 '24
Josh is a fucking moron.
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u/DrHooper Jul 12 '24
More like Josh has been fed lies by his family and friends his entire life to justify their racism.
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u/fakeunleet Jul 12 '24
They wanted slaves to count as a whole person for representation, but zero people for taxes.
3/5 was called a compromise for a reason, that was the compromise.
At the time, the federal government was funded by tariffs, and by taxing the state governments, and population figured into how much they had to pay. The states would then fund this liability with property taxes
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u/Calladit Jul 12 '24
It truly saddens me, a first generation immigrant, how many Americans I've surprised with the 3/5th clause. I genuinely love this country, I just wish it lived up to the ideals that so many of it's citizens have convinced themselves it's always had.
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u/5510 Jul 12 '24
The south claiming slaves should count as a full person for representation purposes has to be one of the all time "trying to eat your cake and have it too" things ever.
Either slaves are people, in which case you can't own them... or they are property, in which case they don't get representation any more than factory equipment would. You can't have it both ways. Even ignoring that slavery is obviously super evil and fucked up, that's just logically bullshit.
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u/alicefreak47 Jul 12 '24
Not much has changed. "My body my choice!" - Person angry they have to wear a mask. The same person oddly doesn't vote pro-choice.
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u/evrybdyhdmtchingtwls Jul 12 '24
Conservatives have always co-opted the language of the left to make themselves seem like victims. You should see some of the shit monarchists wrote about poor oppressed kings being deposed and deprived of their right to rule.
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u/Lumpy_Marsupial_1559 Jul 12 '24
There's some special 'But I'M the victim' headspace going on here. Unfortunately, that shit can be passed on/generational.
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Jul 12 '24
It's literally known as The Lost Cause and takes the image of the Antebellum South (ie Gone with the Wind) with happy slaves content in the care of their genteel owners in a fight that they only lost due to the sheer numbers and industrial might of a crude, less civilized North. It's utter nonsense.
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u/notaredditreader Jul 12 '24
I saw Gone With the Wind in a theater in Richmond VA with my wonderful SC aunt. There was so much crying in the audience that I thought to myself that I should have worn rubber boots. It was surreal.
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u/IHaveNoEgrets Jul 12 '24
It really is a beautiful testament to the artistry of and technological advancements in cinema in that time period, and the score is absolutely iconic.
Beyond that, well... yyyyyyeah...
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u/Viridun Jul 12 '24
Texas is especially fucked up because they were Americans who immigrated to Texas when it was a Mexican territory, then begged the U.S to annex them because Mexico outlawed slavery.
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u/DudeIsAbiden Jul 12 '24
More to that, Mexico had a strict immigration policy to prevent Anglos from taking over Texas. This was ignored by the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from USA that eventually, took over Texas
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u/Tdanger78 Jul 12 '24
Texas begged once we fought Mexico and won. But we definitely fought Mexico over slavery. The Texas revolution was absolutely the Civil War light.
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u/Magick_mama_1220 Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
I would do Georgia's but slavery is referenced in the Declaration of Secession over 30 times and I didn't want to quote the whole damn document. But trust me, GA left the Union over slavery.
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u/zzwugz Jul 12 '24
Georgia is the biggest irony imo, considering the colony was initially founded banning slavery
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u/Somerandoguy212 Jul 12 '24
I don't know...I took Georgia history in 8th grade and they were very clear it was about northern aggression and state rights. I really wish 14yr old me would have asked which rights, but they drilled in the fact it was all the northerns fault
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u/galethorn Jul 12 '24
There's a good reason for that, the Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, became governor of Georgia after the war and wrote papers, books, and even textbooks to push the narrative of states writes in order to look "better" historically.
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u/fapsandnaps Jul 12 '24
Hey West Virginia! Why did you separate from Virginia?
The true purpose of all government is to promote the welfare and provide for the protection and security of the governed, and when any form or organization of government proves inadequate for, or subversive of this purpose, it is the right, it is the duty of the latter to alter or abolish it.
In layman's terms: Fuck them other Virginians-- seceding bastards.
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u/5510 Jul 12 '24
I don't understand why West Virginia isn't named "Virginia"?
Like... if Virginia splits into two pieces on opposite sides of a war... shouldn't the winning side get to keep the name? My memory is the original temporary name was even something like "the restored government of virginia"
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u/Crathsor Jul 12 '24
Texas fought Mexico over slavery, too. The Alamo? That was over slavery, kids.
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u/whileyouwereslepting Jul 12 '24
The Alamo is the oldest monument to slavery in Texas.
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Jul 12 '24
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u/Crathsor Jul 12 '24
I never heard this one!
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Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
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u/stealthx3 Jul 12 '24
This is the best fact I've ever heard thank you lmao
Imagine fighting a whole war to keep territory and then just giving some up to a neighbor state because owning people is more important to you than what you literally just killed a ton of people over.
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u/hrminer92 Jul 12 '24
A reason for the Mexican American war was to get more territory for slave states too. Others called filibusters had their own private armies for the purpose of invading parts of Latin America to âliberateâ territory for the slave economy. There was a group that wanted to annex everything down to the Darian Gap for the purpose of creating a massive bloc of slave states.
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u/Hoflich Jul 12 '24
So. Texans are double traitors. Against Mexico and against the Union?
BTW... They piss in rage when I call them Texicans.
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u/cliometrician Jul 12 '24
What a lot of people forget is iTexasâ Ordinance of Secession calls out northern states for exercising their state right to not return enslaved persons under the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, and stating the federal government shouldâve forced those states to abide by federal law. Literally opposing states rights.
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u/Dave-astator318 Jul 12 '24
âWe believe in stateâs rights. But only OUR stateâs rights!â
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u/Similar_Disaster7276 Jul 11 '24
Hence âThe War of Northern Aggressionâ. They were being super aggressive about our practice of slavery. So mean!
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u/psgrue Jul 11 '24
I got the war of Northern Aggression excuse once. âThe north unfairly attacked you?â Yup. âIt wasnât over slaveryâ. No. âSo you were just about to give up all your slaves on your own and the north just attacked you anyway?â Well, noâŚ
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u/Drakeytown Jul 12 '24
Also, if it wasn't about slavery, why don't we have slavery any more? Did the Southern slave holding states just spontaneously abolish slavery some time after the war?
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u/OriginalGhostCookie Jul 12 '24
This is when they throw the whole âThe republicans were the ones who abolished slavery!â shtick
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u/RebelCMX_85 Jul 12 '24
Theyâll proceed to deny the party ideological switch that occurred between the new deal and civil rights, too.
They believe as part of their religion that conservatives have always been republicans and that conservatives have credit for every good thing that ever happened and liberals are to blame for everything bad. They get physically violent over facts that go against their religion. Conservatism is a religion, and a cult.
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u/omiksew Jul 12 '24
We donât have âchattelâ slavery anymore. The 13th amendment makes sure we still use slave labor. we as in companies, farms, factories, maybe even the governorâs offices if you live in Louisiana.
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u/wakatenai Jul 12 '24
and the confederate states attacked first anyways.
it wasn't just that the confederacy went "nuh uh", or that they declared war, or that they clearly states in their letters of secession why they were seceding.
they legit drew first blood when they attacked fort Sumter.
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u/Recent_Fisherman311 Jul 12 '24
A nice (racist) SC docent told me that the fort was in SCâs harbor, and the Feds started to reinforce it, which was the first âaggressionâ lol as in, âbut they started it!!â
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Jul 12 '24
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u/RoboDae Jul 12 '24
Russians did the same thing recently in Ukraine. Lined up massive amounts of troops and tanks on the border, then called it a training exercise and complained about Ukraine bringing in troops to attack
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u/Tracicot Jul 12 '24
I'm from New England but went down to the South for grad school and have had some very similar conversations. One of the first weeks I was there one of my classmates was going on about the War of Northern Agression. Just to mess with him I started agreeing with him that it was a War of Northern Agression, only to tell him that it was a shame the North didn't go further in destroying the South.
He didn't talk to me much after that....
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u/admiralackbarstepson Jul 12 '24
Donât forget the war of northern aggression started when the south attacked a federally owned fort too
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u/A_Queer_Owl Jul 11 '24
Fort Sumter jumped in front of those cannonballs!
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u/Similar_Disaster7276 Jul 11 '24
I mean, did you SEE what Ford Sumter was wearing? Asking for it.
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u/Embarrassed_Ad5387 Jul 11 '24
Fort Sumter shouldn't have been jaywalking
we need the space for cannonballs
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u/aspieinblackII Jul 11 '24
To be fair, the dress uniform of the Federal Army in 1860 is pretty on point. A black felt hat pinned up on one side with the Army badge, the service insignia in the center front with the regimental number and company letter present, a nice indigo blue frock coat with sky blue (infantry) or red (artillery) piping on the collar and cuffs, matching dark blue trousers, black leather accourtrements, black leather neck stocking the Model 1842 Springfield (Or the 1855 Springfield for the regular infantry.)
Holy shit. Reading the description does give it a weird S&M sounding vibe to it.
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u/ZombieBarney Jul 11 '24
Yeah! They weren't even doin slavery, just practicing is all!!!
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u/circusfreakrob Jul 12 '24
they were actually getting REALLY good at it. They coulda gone pro in no time.
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u/hollyhockcrest Jul 11 '24
Came here to say that where Iâm at, they call it the war of northern aggression. Itâs crazy. But I live near a beach and donât have to talk to too many people I donât want to, so I just shrug it off and stop talking to that person.
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u/Super-G1mp Jul 11 '24
Holy shit thatâs insane I canât believe anybody calls it that. North aggression you kidding me? Damn.
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u/ContemplatingPrison Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
These people will say it was states right and then when you ask them states right to do what? They will look at you like the fucking idiots they are
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u/SupriseAutopsy13 Jul 12 '24
Then remind them the Confederate Constitution explicitly forbade member states from any laws restricting or prohibiting slavery.Â
Because, you know, states rights.
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u/ThrowAway233223 Jul 12 '24
Exactly! It isn't even, "States' Rights to do what?" The "States' Rights" claim is *complete* horseshit. They literally had less "States' Rights" concerning slavery than the Union they left which had both Free and Slave States.
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u/Beautiful_Matter_322 Jul 12 '24
But it was State's rights, State's right to have and hold slaves.
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u/chronoflect Jul 12 '24
It was about State's rights, more specifically the right to harbor free slaves and refuse to return them to their oppressors. The South hated that shit.Â
The Confederacy was poised to enforce mandatory slavery in all member states.Â
Everything about the "State's rights" argument is disingenuous and ahistorical.
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u/CykoTom1 Jul 12 '24
I mean, if you want to hit them where they live yes. But actually the south was extremely against states rights. States rights would mean a slave who enters a free state becomes a free man, at least if the state has a law that says so. Also, the fugitive slave laws are the most anti states rights laws that ever existed in our country. Also confederate states did not have the right to not allow slavery.
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u/Stock_Garage_672 Jul 12 '24
But somehow they had no objection to the fugitive slave act, which runs roughshod over states' rights.
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u/andio76 Jul 11 '24
Mississippi Native here: That's the shit I hit 'em with when they pull that...The-poor-ole-South-was-Trod-Upon Bullshit
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u/mrsbundleby Jul 12 '24
If you read the articles of secession Mississippi was the one state that wrote they actually not only wanted to keep slavery but expand it
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u/Familiar_Ad7273 Jul 12 '24
Hey virginia, why did you seccede?
THE SECESSION ORDINANCE.
AN ORDINANCE TO REPEAL THE RATIFICATION OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BY THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, AND TO RESUME ALL THE RIGHTS AND POWERS GRANTED UNDER SAID CONSTITUTION.
The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.
Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain that the ordinance adopted by the people of this State in Convention, on the twenty-fifth day of June, eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State, ratifying or adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the Union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State. And they do further declare that the said Constitution of the United States of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.
This ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day when ratified by a majority of the votes of the people of this State, cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule to be hereafter enacted.
Done in Convention, in the city of Richmond, on the 17th day of April, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one, and in the eighty-fifth year of the Commonwealth of Virginia.
JNO. L. EUBANK, Secretary of Convention
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u/Mr-MuffinMan Jul 11 '24
YEaH bUT tHoSe STatEs wErE dEmOcRAts!
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u/shino4242 Jul 12 '24
Its funny cuz, aside the flip, they say that like its some gotcha statement. Unlike the right, we criticize and condemn the actions of our own.
Yeah, the south were democrats. And they sucked and were evil assholes. So why are you defending them mr southerner? Hows them being dems have ANY baring on the issue?
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u/Medical_Slide9245 Jul 12 '24
When you mention to most proud southerners that their ancestors were Democrats they don't find the humor. Or mention that their Republican hero was indeed the Northern Aggressor in chief.
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u/INeedAVape Jul 12 '24
I've explained the entire party ideology switch that was detailed by Callum McKelvie. The vast majority of modern right wingers deny it all.
But then ask them, "So did all of those southern slave owning democrats move up north, while all of those northern abolitionist republicans move south?" That leaves them speechless.
Then ask them, "So when you see the Confederate flag flying at Trump rallies and other Republican candidates, are those Democrats that showed up to show their support for Republicans?" That usually makes them mad.
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u/AlexandraG94 Jul 11 '24
Even back then I do not understand how someone can freaking write that in a formal important statement. Institution of slavery? Fuck rifht off, comerce is fine if work would be equally and humanly distributed between former masters and former slaves. I honestly do not understand how soneone can say these things with a straight face and all condescendent. Be real, you are just a sick fuck who likes the power, the status quo and not lifting a finger.
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u/SandboxOnRails Jul 12 '24
It was just as sick back then. People like to pretend that it was a "different time" and people just "had different views". But there have always been a gigantic number of voices that actively denounced the evils of slavery.
Most notably, the slaves.
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u/t-licus Jul 12 '24
It wasnât even some ancient bronze age civilization where there might be an argument that people had different views about slavery, human sacrifice and feeding people to lions as entertainment. It was the goddamn 19th century. They had steamships and railroads and saxophones. The Communist Manifesto, On the Origin of Species and a goddamn Christmas Carol were published before the civil war even begun.
Slavery was never right, but in the 1800s? It was a goddamn abomination.
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u/dansk968 Jul 11 '24
Was it about states rights? Yes.
States right to do what exactly? To keep slaves.
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u/Hearsaynothearsay Jul 11 '24
Several states, including South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas, issued "Declarations of Causes" explaining their reasons for secession. These documents prominently featured slavery as a key motivation .
The declarations made clear defenses of slavery and objections to Northern opposition to slavery. For example:
Mississippi stated its position was "thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery"Â .
Georgia complained about Northern states refusing to comply with fugitive slave laws .
Texas denounced Northern states' "debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color"Â
To be fair, Texas may have the same position today.
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u/Kriegerian Jul 11 '24
Frankly Mississippi probably does too.
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u/SEA2COLA Jul 11 '24
Mississippi did not officially end slavery until 1995. Out of sheer stubbornness, of course.
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u/Wants_to_be_accepted Jul 11 '24
You think they use the hard R when pronouncing stubbornness
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u/Deep_Number_4656 Jul 11 '24
I did not know this, so I looked it up. I guess âtechnicallyâ it wasnât abolished until 2013 đł
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u/kmikek Jul 11 '24
if you like that, then here's another one; Ohio wasn't an American state, officially, until 1953. I tell this to my dad who was born in Ohio in 1948, to remind him that he wasn't born in America.
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Jul 11 '24
Iâm upvoting this because itâs funny, not true.
Before 1953 it was a territory and people born in territories of the US (like puerto rico and pre statehood ohio) are citizens and they can run for president.
Keep saying it to your dad though if he believes it because itâs funny.
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u/Skafdir Jul 11 '24
Wait, does that mean that someone born in Ohio before 1953 could not run for president?
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u/No_Arugula8915 Jul 11 '24
iirc, up until they finally abolished slavery, it was still legal to tether your slaves to the horse hitching posts outside the state capitol. Not sure which I found more shocking actually.
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u/Cautious-Progress876 Jul 11 '24
We never officially ended slavery in the US, period. We just limited it.
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u/PancakeProfessor Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
âThanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits
âCause free laborâs the cornerstone of US economics
âCause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison
You think I am bullshittin, then read the 13th Amendment
Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits
Thatâs why they givinâ drug offenders time in double digitsâ
-Killer Mike, âReaganâ (2012)
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u/helmvoncanzis Jul 11 '24
The Republic of Texas was literally founded to protect chattel slavery.
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u/Friendly_Deathknight Jul 11 '24
Jackson owned slaves and wanted Texas bad, but was like âreally? You had to fight Mexico over that? Iâm trying to prevent a civil war you dipshits.â
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u/Lanky_Republic_2102 Jul 11 '24
Yup, slavery is right their in their declarations, the primary sources.
But the âLost Causeâ narrative of bullshit historial propaganda came about around the turn of the century, same time as all those factory made Confederate monuments.
Fuck this momsplainer and fuck all those historically illiterate CSA apologists.
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u/ArchonFett Jul 11 '24
Tbf most were intentionally taught history wrong
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u/Lanky_Republic_2102 Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
As an adult, you have a responsibility to educate yourself before you miseducate your children.
Here the mom is incorrectly correcting her kids.
I have zero sympathy.
Like many things, thereâs a knee jerk inclination among many people to assume that the unpopular or contrary opinion is correct, it gives them self importance that they have âspecial knowledgeâ:
Anti-vaxers, flat-earthers, QAnon, lost cause people, Holocaust deniers, people who blame everything on Soros.
Fuck them all, no need to be fair to them, they cause harm to others, in many cases death, due to their ignorance.
612,222 people died in the US Civil War, along with countless premature deaths due to slavery during its hundreds of years.
Sheâs spitting on their graves. No need to be fair to her due to her personality disorder and historial illiteracy.
We fought a Civil War over this shit and we can fight another one to preserve the Union if necessary.
The Union is like a blood in blood out prison gang, itâs not a gentlemanâs club.
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u/ArchonFett Jul 11 '24
Oh I agree. The gradual dissembling of public education was the greatest crime. Further indoctrination that âthis is the truth and any other information that doesnât agree with it is a lieâ only makes it worse. Since they automatically dismiss any evidence that hurts their feelings you canât educate them to the truth.
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u/Cattryn Jul 11 '24
I fucking hate the Lost Cause. As a resident of Missouri that spent most of my public education years here I am STILL learning things about the civil war at 38. I hate that we are being threatened with a second civil war by idiots that believe that bull shit about the first one.
But can we take a moment and acknowledge that it was so successful mostly because of the Womenâs Memorial societies and the United Daughters of the Conferacy? So many people in this country know more about the Lost Cause than they do about our own Constitution, and women did most of the work for that. Women are capable of some truly evil shit and we could rule the world if we could get our act together (ideally to do good shit not evil shit).
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u/Billy3000-1 Jul 11 '24
This. How can it be NOT be about slavery when, I believe, a majority explicitly stated it as the reason? I wouldnât want my child learning history from her or anyone like her. Partially because sheâs wrong, but mainly because sheâs lazy.
Seriously, the words are clearly written on documents that have been part of the public records for over 100 years. FFS. How can you NOT know that???
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u/permabanned_user Jul 11 '24
This is an even more common myth than the lost cause. The US did not attempt to ban slavery. States there always had the choice to be free or slave. This was not the case in the Confederacy. Their constitution forbid states from making laws that restricted the rights of slaveowners in any way. So states that seceded were actually giving up their states right to make their own decision about slavery, in exchange for a guarantee that the institution of slavery would be safe forever.
The only right in question was the right to own slaves. If they had to trample states rights to empower slavers, they would do it. If they had to promote states rights to empower slavers, they would do it. Which is to say that they didn't actually have any values rooted in states rights at all.
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u/CabooseFox Jul 11 '24
Wasnât even about states rights. All the southern states got really pissy when the north tried to leave the fugitive slave act to the states. States rights when it benefits us, federal rights when it doesnât.
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u/Nerevarine91 Jul 11 '24
Exactly- the South loved the Fugitive Slave Act, which was one of the most blatant assaults on the notion of statesâ rights up to that point, as it essentially nullified the concept of a free state
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u/GitmoGrrl1 Jul 11 '24
The Fugitive Slave Act should get more attention. That was the Slavers going too far and demanding that people in the North return slaves or be guilty of crimes. That was the real beginning of the civil war because after it was passed, everybody was involved and nobody could ignore it.
The Fugitive Slave Act was the biggest blunder the Slavers made. They always go too far just like they are now with women.
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u/B1G_Fan Jul 11 '24
Almost like the demands of states with abortion bans demanding that states without abortion bans be guilty of crime...
History doesn't always repeat, but it can frequently rhyme...
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u/KalexCore Jul 11 '24
Literally just going to say this, they want state rights for their fucked up shit and then demand federal action on other states when they don't comply with their local wishes.
Go to another state if you want that freedom, oh you did? Ok well then we're going to make it illegal for you to be in those other states and going to demand the federal government enforce it.
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u/nderdog_76 Jul 11 '24
So nothing's really changed with these knuckleheads ever since. It's still demanding freedom, as long as it's the freedoms they support so they can do whatever they damn well please, but screw anyone who's not a straight white male, they don't deserve to make their own choices or even exist.
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u/Purityskinco Jul 11 '24
I used to work in international relations. My background was linguistics but I got a cert from a local university in peace and conflict studies while working.
Was it states rights? Yes. Because of slavery
Was it about economics? Yes. Because of slavery.
So you have these initial argued issues but then when you boil down to the thesis: itâs still slavery.
And I learned that shit not at uni. I learned that in high school. Bc I wasnât homeschooled.
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u/Kibblesnb1ts Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
There's a confederate monument not far from me here in the deep south all about "Lincoln's tax war" and goes on and on. Doesn't mention slavery once. Enormous confederate flag blowing proudly in the wind. I hate these people so much.
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u/IrisYelter Jul 11 '24
What's hilariously fragile about that argument is that the Confederacy didn't even believe in states rights. The Confederate constitution mandated the states approval of chattel slavery. So they didn't even support a states right to choose slavery.
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u/Celtic_Oak Jul 11 '24
Man, if I had a nickel for every time Iâve won a discussion with a red hat using that factual argumentâŚIâd be stone broke because they just donât care anymore.
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u/Informal-Access6793 Jul 11 '24
Can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
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u/miras9069 Jul 11 '24
Probably they think it was because of some cotton price dispute or something.
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u/kmikek Jul 11 '24
each of the confederate states has a constitution. each of those constitutions explicitly enshrines the institution of slavery as a fundamental right of the state. If you ever need to know what they believed in, look at their constitutions
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u/billschu52 Jul 11 '24
To keep slaves and hold poor and middle class whites in a feudal caste system
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u/what_would_freud_say Jul 11 '24
It's not like the southern state politicians didn't write documents and give speeches about why they left. They are pretty clear that they left because they wanted to keep their slaves.
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u/I_Frothingslosh Jul 11 '24
To be fair, they left because they were afraid Lincoln would first stop forcing Northern states to return their escaped slaves, and then would take their slaves away. Even though he'd said he had no such plans.
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u/CharsOwnRX-78-2 Jul 11 '24
Halfway through the war, he clearly just got fed up and said âoh youâre afraid Iâm taking your slaves away? Well surprise motherfuckers, Emancipation Proclamation!â
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u/d_locke Jul 12 '24
The Emancipation Proclamation was a genius move to guarantee that GB would not enter the war on the side of the Confederacy, which was being considered. Lincoln, by raising the bar of the Union cause from preservation of the union to a moral question about slavery guaranteed that Britain, who had just outlawed slavery itself, could not join to support the side that was fighting to preserve the institution. It's just one of many examples of Lincoln's genius and pragmatism.
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u/I_Frothingslosh Jul 12 '24
And for those curious, England was considering intervening due to the loss of the cotton trade as a result of the Union's blockade of the South.
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u/AnonymousSilence4872 Jul 12 '24
Would have hampered them in the long run, tho. Egypt, as it turned out, had an abundance of cotton, which was of superior quality to North American cotton, too.
So... yeah. The Confederacy was kinda fucked from the start. And that warms my heart and makes my American soul sing like none other.
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u/Alywiz Jul 12 '24
Also, the little matter of the US committing an act of war against Britain by seizing the RMS Trent
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u/I_Frothingslosh Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
It was more calculated than that. Don't forget that letter where he pointed out his primary goal was to save the union, even if it meant keeping slavery intact. Nothing was more important to him than that.
What ended up happening was that several European nations, including England, were unhappy about the loss of the cotton trade due to the blockade imposed by the Union, and they were seriously considering intervening in support of the Confederacy. Lincoln realized he had to stop that, and that declaring the abolition of slavery would change everything. There was no way those nations would jump into the war against the side fighting to eliminate slavery, so he wrote up the Emancipation Proclamation, and it did exactly what he needed: it kept Europe out of the war.
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u/MenacingMallard Jul 11 '24
I am imaging Lincoln sassily singing âoooo, look what you made me doâ while he signs it.
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u/dnext Jul 11 '24
He didn't intend to do so. That's the ironic part. The only reason he did so early was the war.
The original plan was to slowly phase it out as more and more states were brought in as free. It was the original plan of the Founders when they made the NW Territories ban slavery.
It was the plantation owners going nuts with fear that caused slavery to be banned in their homes during the war and the entire country when the amendment could be passed.
Hell, it's also what created income tax. It was created for the war effort.
Morons.
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u/redwolf1219 Jul 12 '24
Goddamn, so not only is the civil war bc southern states were throwing a fit, but we also have income tax bc of their tantrum
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u/I_Frothingslosh Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
That income tax expired. The one we have now came about in 1913 as the result of a constitutional amendment. It largely superceded tariffs and excise taxes which people then hated as much as people today hate income tax.
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u/CharsOwnRX-78-2 Jul 11 '24
I sign it once, and then I sign. It. Twice.
OOOH
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u/Crossovertriplet Jul 11 '24
Lincoln canât come to the phone right now. Why? Heâs dead.
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u/Fan_of_Clio Jul 12 '24
Which only affected the states in rebellion. There were 4 slave states which the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply: MD, Del, Ken, and Missouri
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u/JeffTheNth Jul 11 '24
oh, but that wasn't the best part of it....
It freed the slaves in the states that had seceded.
NOT THOSE IN THE NORTHERN STATES!
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u/Rakkuken Jul 11 '24
The funny thing about the States Rights argument is that the Confederacy considered itself to be its own nation and not states in rebellion and made their own constitution. Surprise! States had fewer rights granted to them by the Confederate government than the one they'd just left.
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u/blaimjos Jul 12 '24
The first thing they did was copy-paste the US constitution, add more protections for slavery, and prohibit secession from the confederacy. It's almost as if they wanted all of posterity to know without doubt that it was all about slavery. Because they did, and it was, and they had no shame.
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u/Similar_Disaster7276 Jul 11 '24
I didnât realize the Leopards Eating Faces Party had been around for so long!
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u/Surfer_Rick Jul 11 '24
Itâs as old as the first populist in the first democracy that ever existed.Â
Edit: That would be the Athenian city-state of Ancient Greece for anyone curious.Â
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u/bunkscudda Jul 11 '24
Elementary School: The Civil war was about slavery
High School: aside from slavery, there were many socioeconomic and political disagreements that drove division between the states and their views of what a federal governments role should be
College: The Civil War was about slavery
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u/TheRealcebuckets Jul 11 '24
Socioeconomic and political disagreements that drove division between the states views of what a federal governments role should be
Namely, the federal governments ability to say if the states can allow slavery. (Do I get a gold star?)
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u/bunkscudda Jul 11 '24
âIts about states rights!â
âstates right to do what?â
âTo do what they feel is best for their state!â
âAnd what is it you feel is best for your state?â
âTo uphold traditions!â
âwhat traditions?â
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u/blurry850 Jul 11 '24
Homeschooling by unqualified parents is child abuse.
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u/mynamecanbewhatever Jul 11 '24
Oh yes I used to watch this family vloggers. Mom and dad married at 17 or somehh the ing no education after high school or something. Dad does electrical work or like yarn works for contractors building houses. Mom is a SAHM. Both are good, I respect them I am happy for them but the minute they had 5 kids and decided they will exclusively only homeschool the children I lost my shit. How what will you teach?! And then they blamed immigrants for taking away their âjobsâ what jobs Maam Iâm sorry but with what knowledge are you giving your 5 children opportunity to grow up and have thriving careers in anything? I donât know how they will teach the children integration differentiation. I as an engineer with masters cannot teach it to anyone else how will you teach and give your child a prosperous future??đľâđŤ
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u/Embarrassed_Rule8747 Rule 34: Don't ask for rule 34 u horni Jul 11 '24
Simple. You don't. Then blame "those damn liberals".
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u/PeeledCrepes Jul 11 '24
I always wonder with that how they teach something as simple as basic math. I did alright in school, and have retained a good portion of the knowledge. I think I'm blessed to have retained it cause I don't know if most people could still do long division, solve for x, or something as simple as explain fractions or decimals. I mean, hell enough, people need a calculator to subtract.
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u/datsoar Jul 11 '24
Iâm not defending shitty homeschoolers, but there are curricula and teachersâ books/aids to teach it. That doesnât mean all homeschooling is good or should be done, but there are resources.
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u/acidwxlf Jul 12 '24
Problem is those resources are controlled by extremely conservative Christian companies backed by a strong lobbyist group. So you end up with books teaching kids that dinosaurs and humans coexisted and fun stuff like that
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u/oan124 Jul 11 '24
good way to really hammer in long division is to keep forgetting to bring your calculator. you will lose some points because of time constraints, but trust me you wont forget long division. ask me how i know
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u/Socratesticles Jul 11 '24
I was homeschooled myself and I wholeheartedly agree. Iâm grateful my mom was at least able to recognize when she was approaching her limits and reached out for additional help and resources. Things werenât perfect but in my experiences, I didnât come out of it any worse than the average non-homeschooled kid in my area.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tip660 Jul 11 '24
In 1789 the 13 colonies debated banning slavery, but 3 of the colonies said they wouldnât stay in the country if that happened⌠ Less than 80 years later, an antislavery president gets elected, (not even takes office or proposes anything, just wins the election,) and the slave owning states are like âwe are out of here.â  Nobody debated why this happened at the time!
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u/JeffTheNth Jul 12 '24
West Virginia was formed because Virginia seceded.
Because of the Constitution, they couldn't split the state... until it wasn't under that Constitution any longer. Once split off, they joined the Union, leaving "Southern" Virginia behind.
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u/Optimus_Rhymes69 Jul 11 '24
My mom and dad homeschooled my siblings and I. I went to public school in 9th grade, but they wanted to put me in 6th because my test scores were so low. I had to go sit down with the principal and he gave me a shot. Going to a public school, was one of the most humiliating experiences of my life, because I wasnât taught right.
I do think homeschooling can work, but if you have zero experience in teaching, like my parents, itâs child abuse imo.
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u/mstrss9 Jul 12 '24
Idk how so many people feel qualified. I have a masters degree in education and I wouldnât want to home school if I had kids.
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u/Optimus_Rhymes69 Jul 12 '24
A lot of it was religious based. And my mom was #2 in high school. They thought that just meant she could teach anything to anyone. That meme with the tears on the paper and someone saying âWHATS 4X4?!?!â Was very accurate for us. Weâre all ok, though.
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u/imadork1970 Jul 11 '24
It's the slavery. All you have to do is read the Constitution of the CSA.
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u/Xaero_Hour Jul 11 '24
Or just ask, "if it wasn't about slavery, then why did only slave-owning states participate (and not even all of them did so in the first place)? Follow-up question: if it wasn't about slavery, then why didn't they also abandon slavery when Lincoln explicitly made it about emancipation/abolition to keep the UK from intervening?"
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u/Radiant-Importance-5 Jul 11 '24
The civil war was about many things.
Like slavery.
And states rights to allow slavery.
And the economic difference of utilizing slave labor.
And the moral question of allowing slavery.
And slavery.
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u/Wide-Quit-7104 Jul 12 '24
And they were mad at states in the north who did not enforce the Fugitive Slave Act
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u/OGistorian Jul 11 '24
Anyone who says the civil war was NOT about slavery (from start to finish) is dead wrong. It was and always will be about slavery. From the moment Lincoln got elected, the south was suicidally worried about their slave economies. It was the main question that was put off from the creation of the nation to 1860.
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u/Lutya Jul 11 '24
I thought it had something to do with vampires?
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u/F7Uup Jul 11 '24
Underrated gem of a movie. Watched it on an international flight expecting nothing and received everything.
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter for those wondering, definitely worth a watch.
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u/Brosenheim Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
Never ask a woman her age
A man, his salary
And a Lost Causer what the preamble of the Confederate Constitution says
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u/pmsnow Jul 11 '24
If only she had read the Constitution of the Confederate states:
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u/Its0nlyRocketScience Jul 11 '24
Yup. Looks like article 3, section 9, item 4. No law shall be passed that restricts slavery.
So it wasn't about states rights, they actually took away the states' right to choose whether to allow slavery before Lincoln did it.
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u/PufferFishInTheFryer Jul 12 '24
I teach college and every semester this comes up and there is always that one student who says âthe Civil War was not about slavery, it was economics.â To which I always reply, âYouâre right, it would have been economically terrible for those states to have to start paying their workersâ
They generally donât like that response.
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u/habitual_wanderer Jul 11 '24
It's also telling that that's the only reason she has for homeschooling
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u/funniestusername69 Jul 12 '24
For God's sake guys the civil war was NOT about slavery! It was about each state's right to remain in full control of their laws and economy. Like whether or not they could legally own human beings for exploitation and stuff like that.
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u/Kamikaze_Cash Jul 12 '24
Me at 9: The Civil War was fought over slavery.
Me at 16: Actually, there were many reasons for the Civil War including stateâs rights to effect their own sovereignty from the federal government and blah blah blah
Me at 33: The Civil War was fought over slavery.
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u/SweatyTax4669 Jul 11 '24
The civil war started because South Carolina fired on U.S. military personnel at Fort Sumter.
Why did they do this? Because South Carolina unilaterally decided it didnât want to be part of the United States anymore.
Why did they decide this? Because they were afraid the United States wouldnât allow them to own people as property.
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u/blackmobius Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
IT WAS STATES RIGHTS!!!
âŚ.to keep and own slaves.
And funnily enough it wasnt even about states rights, either. One of the territories (kansas I believe) held a vote and chose to prohibit slaves. But the confederacy needed senators to balance pro and anti slavery voices, they passed the Kansas Nebraska Act of 1859 that overturned the state vote, allowing slavery.
So yeah, states rights unless you dont have the correct state vote. So the argument of states rights is absolutely bull shit (but everyone already knew that)
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u/BosmangEdalyn Jul 11 '24
Admitting that you want seed more racism into your childâs education isnât the flex you think it is.
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